Can't use - **** - Busy.

[wmconlon]

I'm running Retrospect 5 (latest) on Mac OS 9, backing up to external firewire disks.

 

One Backupset runs ok. The other pauses with a message:

 

"Can't use 1-BackupsetA. Busy."

 

Looking at the window with the backup state (how many files remain), it's apparent that Retrospect is trying to backup the backup disk to itself. You can see that all 57 2-GB files on the firewire drive are queued for backup.

 

The only solution is to manually stop the backup at this point. Retrospect then compresses the catalog (to the Mac's internal drive).

 

Why does this happen with disk A, but not disk B?

How do I get Retrospect to NOT try to backup this disk?

[AmyJ]

Retrospect 5.0 does not support using hard drives as removable disks. You must use File backup sets for proper backup and restore. Incorrectly using hard drives may prevent data restore.

 

See the following link for information on backing up to a hard drive with Retrospect 5 under OS 9:

 

http://www.dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=kbase&ACTION=KBASE&id=27644

[wmconlon]

 

1. Retrospect 4.3 managed this feat very nicely. (In fact your predecessor product managed to do this to floppies -- I still have hundreds from backing up my ASIP 2 server).

 

2. Retrospect 5.1 gives the impression of handing this as well. I've been backing up for months. I just ran a file restore and it seemed to work.

 

3. Retrospect advertises that it backs up to all sorts of media -- CD, tape, disk.

 

4. Retrospect 6 does NOT "support" ASIP server backups.

 

5. Retrospect 4 does not support linux backups.

 

6. In a separate thread we're unable to figure out why Retrospect won't reliably back up to my Sony SDT-9000 DDS-3 tape drive.

 

7. If Retrospect 5 is unreliable about anything, it has seemed to be the first backup of linux; though incremental backup seems to work.

 

So I've put together an iMac running OS9 with Retro 5.1 backing up automatically to one of two 120GB firewire drives, each a separate backup set. The backup sets have not yet required the addition of a new member. The script backs up the iMac and these clients: an ASIP server, a Win98 PC, a MacOS 9 desktop, a MacOS X desktop, and a Redhat 9 system. The backups are always compared (without error), and I've verified them occasionallly.

 

The only issue I had was that Retrospect would attempt to backup a backup set members for one of the two backup sets. My question is why is this happening to one member; and how do I fix it.

 

I don't quite understand your response, nor do I see how the above link really applies to my question. Many of the drives listed in the Backup set dialog (Jaz, Syquest, e.g.) are hard disks, as if that should make a difference. Retrospect did not object to me selecting a mounted firewire drive when creating the backup set, and Dantz has had several years and several update opportunities to explicitly lock out the use of external drives, and to update its marketing literature accordingly.

 

So several more questions:

 

1. If I created a "File" backup set on a Firewire drive, would it be able to hold more than 2 GB, which is the MacOS 9 limit?

2. Is the problem with firewire drives limited to backup sets that span members? That is if I limit my backups to a single drive, will I be ok?

3. Since there appears to be a problem with firewire hard drive, does this apply to all mass storage devices attached via a firewire interface, or could I use a tape drive, for example, attached via firewire?

4. How do you reconcile your response with this statement "Hard Disk Drive/Removable Note: All Hard Disk Drives and Removable Media Drives are fully supported (excluding Floppy Disk Drives)." that appears at http://dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=compatibility_list

[AmyJ]

Quote:

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1. If I created a "File" backup set on a Firewire drive, would it be able to hold more than 2 GB, which is the MacOS 9 limit?

 

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That is a Macintosh Standard limit. Format the drive as Macintosh Extended.

 

Quote:

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2. Retrospect 5.1 gives the impression of handing this as well. I've been backing up for months. I just ran a file restore and it seemed to work.

 

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Hard drives should never show up in the Storage Devices window prior to Retrospect 6.0. The reason you are able to do this is because something has set the removable bit on the drive making it appear to the operating system as a removable disk drive - not as the fixed platter drive which it really is. Jaz and Zip disks are removable disk drives - they are not hard drives. It was not until the release of Retrospect 6.0 that the ability to properly backup to a Firewire or USB hard drive as a Removable Disk became available.

 

Quote:

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3. Since there appears to be a problem with firewire hard drive, does this apply to all mass storage devices attached via a firewire interface, or could I use a tape drive, for example, attached via firewire?

 

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I'm unclear as to what problem you are referring to.

 

Quote:

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4. How do you reconcile your response with this statement "Hard Disk Drive/Removable Note: All Hard Disk Drives and Removable Media Drives are fully supported (excluding Floppy Disk Drives)." that appears at

http://dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=compatibility_list

 

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They are, and always have been supported - as a destination for File backup sets or for Duplications. If the removable bit on the drive ever changes - so that it no longer looks like a removable disk to the OS - Retrospect will not be able to access it as a Disk Backup set member which would prevent the ability to restore.

[wmconlon]

1. The drive IS formatted as Extended. 2 Gigabytes is the maximum file size for MacOS9. So please answer my question: If I used a file backup would it handle 120 gigabytes of data?

 

2. The Storage Devices window is irrelevant. You choose a backup set from Destinations when you define a backup set or script. It is indeed troublesome (some would call it a flaw) that only SCSI storage devices appear in the Storage Devices Window. The iMac has no SCSI interface, so it would have been nice if all mass storage devices were visible. But I've never needed to use the Storage Devices window, other than to eject tapes, which I'm not using.

 

A hard disk is just that -- a rigid platter. It is available in various form factors (2.5, 3.5, 5.25, 8, 18 inch), with different interfaces (IDE, SCSI, SAN, NAS, Fibrechannel, Firewire), and may be fixed or removable. A removable drive has the ability to remove the media -- that is the rigid platter, while keeping the drive interface attached. The firewire drive is not "removable" in this sense. Really it is just mounted and unmounted, like any other mass storage device in a Mac.

 

So what do you mean when you say "properly back up to USB or firewire"? Let me repeat question 2:

 

Is the problem with firewire drives limited to backup sets that span members? That is if I limit my backups to a single firewire drive, will I be ok?

 

3. Retrospect apparently has problems with the firewire interface. (In fact, many if not all of the external firewire drives use the same IDE hard disks as would be installed in a Mac or PC). You are saying that Retrospect has problems when an IDE drive is attached via firewire or USB. I'm asking if the same problem occurs if I use a firewire CD, DVD, or tape system.

 

4. It seems clear (to me at least) that my 120 GB hard disks are hard disks, which your literature says are supported. I've chosen to connect them via an industry standard IEEE1394 firewire interface, which is supported by the operating system. Since "All Hard Disk Drives" are supported, is the issue just that the "removeble" bit is not supported?

[AmyJ]

Quote:

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1. The drive IS formatted as Extended. 2 Gigabytes is the maximum file size for MacOS9. So please answer my question: If I used a file backup would it handle 120 gigabytes of data?

 

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Yes - if it is formatted as Extended it will. The 2-gig limit does not exist with Extended formatted volumes. Volumes formatted as Macintosh Standard will not accommodate files larger then 2 gig.

 

Quote:

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Is the problem with firewire drives limited to backup sets that span members? That is if I limit my backups to a single firewire drive, will I be ok?

 

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A hard drive is not a removable disk, nor is it a floppy. These are all different types of media - and are thus accessed differently through the OS. There are no problems with Firewire hard disks - yes, they are all supported. That the removable bit is set on your hard drive does not change the fact that we do not support using them as Removable Disk drives. If you were to move to OS X, the OS better recognizes the difference between hard disks and removable disks - and your backup disk members would no longer be accessible with Retrospect 5.1.

 

A Firewire tape drive works with a tape backup set because it is designed to work with tape drives. A Disk backup set _is not_ designed to work with Firewire hard drives prior to 5.1. There is no correlation between the two in regard to whether Firewire drives work or not.

 

Yes, I will continue to state - Firewire hard drives are supported for use with File backup sets and as Destinations for Duplication. That you are able to use it as a Removable Disk is only because it shows up that way to the OS - not because it actually is a Removable Disk drive.