Rules - Files Not Excluded

[Camelhump]

I have a Rule : Music

this Rule contains definitions which define what I consider 'Music', and all definitions are - any - definition true, and all definitions are in the 'Include' section of the Rule.

 

- various File extensions (mp3, m4a, wmv etc etc etc)

- Folder is OS X Folder Music

- Folder is Windows Folder Music

 

When I test this Rule against a computer running Mac OS X (10.6.4). The folder ~/Users/username/Music folder is NOT selected, the various iTunes support files inside the Music folder are not selected, the iTunes folder is not selected, the specific artist folders are not selected, and any album folders are not selected, *BUT* the individual mp3 files ARE selected.

 

This does not seem correct to me.

 

It seems to me that :

~/Users/username/Music folder (and all of its contents) should be selected, as well as any MP3s (ad other audio files) elsewhere on the computer should be selected.

 

so.... what am I missing?

any help here would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[MG1245]

I'm having the same problem. I used the backup wizard and used a rule that excluded folder - mac path - iTunes. iTunes is a top level folder on the source. In the summary page of the backup wizard, I even selected "preview" to verify the path was being ignored. It was not selected. I saved the script and then ran it and it backed up files in that folder anyway.

 

I even added additional exclusions on unix folder, folder name with /'s and other combinations to try and exclude the itunes folder. Preview showed it as not being checked nor any file under that folder as being checked, but when you run the script the files are backed up anyway.

 

What's am I missing here.

 

I've been trying multiple combinations in the rules to exclude folders that are multiple levels deep with no luck.

 

Here is the test. I'm editing a rule then using the preview button in Backup Assistant to see if the files are checked or not.

 

I have a "/iTunes/iTunes Music" as a path at the top of a source. i.e Source is defined as "LaCie" so the full path would be "/LaCie/iTunes/iTunes Music". In the rule I have nothing listed in the include section - should get all files this way and in excludes it's set to [Any] of the following... [Folder] [Name] [contains] - iTunes

 

Using preview the iTunes folder is not checked - as expected (lets not worry about if it even works. I'm just interested in what preview thinks it will do. )

 

Now edit the rule and only change "iTunes" to be "iTunes Music". We are trying to exclude the 2nd level folder. Check preview and everything is selected. Nothing is excluded. I would have expected the 2nd level folder to not be selected.

 

Either rules are broken in 8.2 or it's way harder that it needs to be (or maybe I'm sleep deprived.)

 

Any ideas?

Edited October 31, 2010 by Guest
adding more information

[MG1245]

Okay, I went and got some sleep and approached this again.

 

I decided to work on backing up some User files and use the default exclude Cache rule to see if I could learn something new. After copying those exclusions to a new rule and removing the windows stuff I'll never use, I ran the backup and it excluded the cache files. It worked as expected.

 

So I restored the User backup to a new drive to see what it did. While it did exclude the cache files, Retrospect did backup all the directory structures where the cache was located. The restore left empty directories but no cache files. I'm not sure I like this. If your going to exclude files, you should exclude the directories containing those files as well. That's my view point any way.

 

I think this is what I was seeing in preview last night. It was backing up the folders and I was not expecting that. However, I know the LaCie rule was not working last night as I saw it backing up files I wanted excluded. So I deleted the rule and started over. To get to the point, it now excludes sub directories like one would expect. I know (okay I think) I did these exact same rules at some point yesterday and they did not work. It's possible I just needed to reboot as I had confused Retrospect. In any case, I'll now explain exactly what I did just in case this helps others.

 

I have a (Retrospect Source = Lacie) - it's an internal drive that contains iphoto libraries, iTunes, and some gziped disk images.

 

I want to exclude the gziped disk images and an "iTunes U" folder that's at LaCie/iTunes/iTunes Music/iTunes U. These two items are huge at over 600GB and I don't need them backed up.

 

So i created a rule called LaCie,

- include is blank. It will get all files.

- exclude has "Any" and

Folder - Mac Path - contains - iTunes U

Folder - Mac Path - contains - /GZ_images/

 

iTunes U is 3 levels deep and GZ_images is at the top level of the drive. I ran this backup and it excludes all files in iTunes U but it does backup the directory structure. I verified this by restoring the backup. Again, I can't explain why this did not work yesterday. I'm fairly certain I tried this combination. Only thing I can think of is I need to reboot.

 

(Camelhump) Let me know if this is anything like what you were trying to do.

 

 

 

[Daniels]

I have a Rule : Music

this Rule contains definitions which define what I consider 'Music', and all definitions are - any - definition true, and all definitions are in the 'Include' section of the Rule.

 

- various File extensions (mp3, m4a, wmv etc etc etc)

- Folder is OS X Folder Music

- Folder is Windows Folder Music

 

 

The files are not be going to be excluded if you have the conditions in the include section of the rule unless you have this music rule inside another rule. To exclude files the conditions need to be in the exclude section of the rule. I would try moving your conditions to the exclude section and see what happens.

[twickland]

I know the LaCie rule was not working last night as I saw it backing up files I wanted excluded. So I deleted the rule and started over. To get to the point, it now excludes sub directories like one would expect. I know (okay I think) I did these exact same rules at some point yesterday and they did not work. It's possible I just needed to reboot as I had confused Retrospect.

One thing to check is whether the Config80.dat file is being updated/modified as expected. Among many other things, Rules are included in this file, which is located at /Library/Application Support/Retrospect on the Engine computer.

 

In our original installation of Retro 8.2, we were finding that this file would not reliably update itself automatically, meaning that recent modifications to scripts, preferences, etc., would not take. We had to manually stop and restart the Retrospect Engine to force it to update. (A reboot, of course, would also achieve this.) The solution for us was to uninstall and reinstall both the Retrospect Engine and the Console. We were able to retain the Config80.dat file, which as far as we can tell was uncorrupted by the prior odd behavior of the Retrospect app.

[Camelhump]

First this Rule - Music - will eventually be part of a much more complex Rule; where Music will be excluded.

 

However, I am testing the Rule to see what it is catching.

 

The Rule is catching :

the MP3s and other specifically designated, by file name extension, music files.

 

HOWEVER - the Rule - according to Preview, is NOT picking up the directory structure around the music files - ie:

~/users/username/Music/iTunes, the support files for the software iTunes, the artist directories, or the album directories -- EVEN THOUGH -- the folder Macpath is Music is part of the Rule.

 

 

[Camelhump]

I went back - created a NEW Rule -

 

Include - any -

Folder Macpath is Music

 

Run a backup - check preview :

NOTHING is selected.

 

This seems to fail, completely.

[Maser]

I don't back up iTunes music on my user computers here.

 

My rule for this is:

 

Folder Name is iTunes Music

 

 

I do also use "Mac Path", but you have to be extremely explicit if you want to use "is".

 

 

So I use stuff like:

 

Folder Mac Path contains

 

like:

 

Folder Mac Path contains /Library/Application Support/4D

 

or

 

Folder Mac Path contains /Crossover/Bottles/

 

 

Not sure if that will help you or not, but that's what works for me.

[Maser]

And, for what it's worth, I think the *preview* of Rules may be broken. You might have to test an actual backup of stuff...

[Camelhump]

hmmm Interesting selection of folders there Maser...

4D...

 

do I see you posting on the 4D iNug??

 

----

Ill try an actual back up -- and see what I get but I can be DAMN sure I dont want to have to test all of my Ruels by actually doing backups to see what I get/dont get!!!!

 

if that is the case - then what the 4377 is the good of the preview function??!?!?!!?

 

 

[Camelhump]

oh - btw the selector, umm... Rule, is a Retrospect thing.

 

I created the Rule as : Folder is OS X Folder Music

Retrospect redefined it as : Folder Macpath is Music

 

 

[Maser]

Ill try an actual back up -- and see what I get but I can be DAMN sure I dont want to have to test all of my Ruels by actually doing backups to see what I get/dont get!!!!

 

if that is the case - then what the 4377 is the good of the preview function??!?!?!!?

 

 

 

FWIW -- I just tested my rules against an empty media set.

 

When I use the Backup Wizard and "preview" -- my rules work correctly (ie, when I drill down to my iTunes folder, everything except my "iTunes Music" is selected.

 

As expected. YMMV, I guess.

 

[Camelhump]

I ran an actual backup.

The Music folder has only the standard support files for iTunes in it.

 

The preview showed NOTHING being selected, 10 minutes of backup, and 20 minutes of restore later - that is exactly what I got. - nothing.

 

So--- Rule :

Include :

Folder Macpath is Music -- does NOT back anything up.

 

[Maser]

Right. That rule means nothing on a basic OSX machine. Unless you have a folder at the root level of your drive called "Music"? *Is* means "exactly" in this context.

 

 

[Camelhump]

ok - I can get behind that...

 

However - Retrospect will not let me create a Rule :

Folder is OS X Folder Music

 

when I do - Retrospect redefines (I save the Rule, open it again and it reads...) the Rule item as:

Folder is Macpath is Music

 

so.... apparently Retrospect thinks that the 2 are the same.

 

I ll try contains and see what I get.... but Im not exepcting anything

[Maser]

(This isn't to say there aren't still bugs in the program -- I'm just saying that syntax is very important when defining rules...)

[twickland]

Back in the Retro 6 days, when one created a selector (i.e. rule), the starting point was obvious. Until changes were made, the selector read: Include Everything and Exclude Nothing. That made it clear that any conditions placed in the Include section are restrictive. Retro 8 has the same starting points except that it doesn't tell you so; in other words, leaving the Include section blank unintuitively gives you a starting point where everything will be selected.

 

(Retro 6 also provided the options is/is not and does/does not, which made it considerably easier to create complex selectors without having to futz with "None" subconditions as Retro 8 now requires.)

[Maser]

I've confirmed that there *are* still bugs in the Preview -- and they seem to be rule dependent.

 

For example, if I make a simple rule that has two lines in the Exemptions:

 

Folder Mac Path contains

File Name contains

 

The preview looks wrong.

 

But if I remove the "File Name" line -- the preview looks right.

 

 

But that the results of the rule (meaning the actual backup) works correctly in either case.

 

Which is incredibly frustrating, I'm sure, for people trying this out for the first time!

 

There's probably some trick to putting things in a specific order where it works "right".

Edited November 2, 2010 by Guest

[fotmasta]

I can't tell if my rule is wrong, or if there's a bug in the rule, or a bug in Preview. Using preview is the only way I can test rules without running a 3 hour backup and filling a tape.

[Maser]

Well, depending on what rules you are testing, you could set up a Favorite Folder containing a subset of what you think should be affected by the rule and just back that up to a temporary disk media set on the engine hard disk (for example)

 

That's what I usually do when testing rules as working with the Preview doesn't always show me what I think it should.