Error 206 Dirty Head failure

[bendingpixels]

Hi, I"m trying to restore from a 2 year old DVD. Using selectors, I've identified the files I want but when I try to restore them I always get execution errors, and none of the files will restore. I've updated to the latest Driver update, and Retrospect, but it doesn't work.

 

Is it a driver error? or is the disk bad? Is there something I can do to salvage this?

thanks

 

[twickland]

You'll need to tell us a bit more about your system hardware and OS version. Also please confirm your Retrospect and RDU version numbers.

 

Also, what type of DVD is it and was the DVD created on the exact same system you're now trying to read it on?

[bendingpixels]

Hi, sorry I didn't respond right away. the notification got kicked to my spam folder.

 

I'm on a jan 08, 8 core mac with 12 gigs of ram and OSX 10.5.8 the retrospect and rdu updates were downloaded from the website last week, and are: Retrospect 6.1.230 and the RDU is: 6.1.16.100

 

the media is a comp usa branded DVD, and the disk was originally burned on the same system that I am trying to read it on now.

 

would an upgrade to Retrospect 8 help this?

 

Thanks

 

You'll need to tell us a bit more about your system hardware and OS version. Also please confirm your Retrospect and RDU version numbers.

 

Also, what type of DVD is it and was the DVD created on the exact same system you're now trying to read it on?

 

[rhwalker]

would an upgrade to Retrospect 8 help this?

No. Retrospect 8 cannot read backups made by any earlier version of Retrospect. Sort of defeats the basic reason for trusting your data to a vendor's backup program. EMC does not seem to grasp that the whole point of a backup program is to be able to restore data from older backups.

 

Using selectors, I've identified the files I want but when I try to restore them I always get execution errors, and none of the files will restore.

Exactly what errors are shown? Could you post an appropriate snippet from the log?

 

Do you have any other DVDs with backup data from the same period? It's possible that the DVD is bad.

 

Here's a thought. I suspect that you are using selectors based on the catalogs that you have saved (because that's how it works). Try moving those catalogs away somewhere and trying to rebuild the catalog from scratch from the DVD. That will tell you whether the DVD is readable. By saving the catalog away, you can always move it back.

 

Need to see some of the error messages to understand what is happening. It's also possible that the laser in the DVD drive has gone bad. I've seen it happen. Are you able to burn DVDs with that drive using the Finder and then have them be usable? That would provide information as to whether the problem is with the drive or with the old DVD.

 

Russ

[bendingpixels]

that really sucks about version 8. Looks like I might need to stop using retrospect after almost 15 years.

 

The drive works just fine. I burn disks using finder and toast all the time.

 

I'm out of town on business, so I'll have to post the log when I get back next week. If you don't mind waiting that long.

 

I'll also try rebuilding the set. Unfortunately there more than 30 DVDs in that set.

 

Is it possible to rebuild just a single disk from a data set?

 

thanks again for the help...

 

 

would an upgrade to Retrospect 8 help this?

No. Retrospect 8 cannot read backups made by any earlier version of Retrospect. Sort of defeats the basic reason for trusting your data to a vendor's backup program. EMC does not seem to grasp that the whole point of a backup program is to be able to restore data from older backups.

 

Using selectors' date=' I've identified the files I want but when I try to restore them I always get execution errors, and none of the files will restore.[/quote']

Exactly what errors are shown? Could you post an appropriate snippet from the log?

 

Do you have any other DVDs with backup data from the same period? It's possible that the DVD is bad.

 

Here's a thought. I suspect that you are using selectors based on the catalogs that you have saved (because that's how it works). Try moving those catalogs away somewhere and trying to rebuild the catalog from scratch from the DVD. That will tell you whether the DVD is readable. By saving the catalog away, you can always move it back.

 

Need to see some of the error messages to understand what is happening. It's also possible that the laser in the DVD drive has gone bad. I've seen it happen. Are you able to burn DVDs with that drive using the Finder and then have them be usable? That would provide information as to whether the problem is with the drive or with the old DVD.

 

Russ

 

[rhwalker]

I'm out of town on business, so I'll have to post the log when I get back next week. If you don't mind waiting that long.

Fine with me. It's your problem.

 

I'll also try rebuilding the set. Unfortunately there more than 30 DVDs in that set.

 

Is it possible to rebuild just a single disk from a data set?

Well, remember, we're trying to home in on the problem. You've eliminated the DVD drive as the problem. So, either the media you have has failed (it happens, if the media was stored in sunlight or heated), or it's a software issue due to Leopard.

 

The answer to your question is yes, you can rebuild just a single disk. Just mark the others as missing. Of course, you'll only get the data from the ones used in the rebuild. Save the catalog away somewhere so you can go back to it after the experiment, if needed.

 

You might also want to try regressing to an earlier RDU. Perhaps a bug was introduced in one of the more recent ones.

 

Good luck.

 

Russ

[bendingpixels]

Hi Russ, thanks again for your help. I made it back from my business trip, and I've done some experiments to try to figure this out.

 

Using two other completely different computers (One MacBook Pro 17, and another Jan 08, 8 core MacPro) I got these results when trying to read that disk to rebuild the data set.

 

On the MacBook Pro, the disk would only show up in the devices window about every 3rd or 4th read attempt. I tried another disk from that same group, and it showed up right away. so I thought the 1st disk was bad until I ejected the second disk and tried putting it in again. that disk showed as unreadable about 50% of the time.

 

On the Second MacPro, the both disks showed up every time. I'm now doing a rebuild of that catalog using just that disk and marking the others as missing.

 

Based on this experience, it would appear that nothing is wrong with my disks, and that something is wrong with how Retrospect communicates with the devices.

 

Does that sound like a fair assesment?

[rhwalker]

Using two other completely different computers (One MacBook Pro 17, and another Jan 08, 8 core MacPro) I got these results when trying to read that disk to rebuild the data set.

Because no information is provided about the OS on either of those other two computers, this is really not useful information.

 

Based on this experience, it would appear that nothing is wrong with my disks, and that something is wrong with how Retrospect communicates with the devices.

 

Does that sound like a fair assesment?

No.

 

Your experiments seem to point to problems with the optical drives (or the media itself) in the computers that cannot read the disks. The media may be marginal (or failing), or the lasers in the problem computers may be aging (it happens, the output declines over time), or the drives in the problem computers may have marginal compatibility with the particular media that you used.

 

Also, Retrospect doesn't talk directly to the drive - it chats using Apple drivers for ATA, IDE, SCSI, whatever.

 

The only way to really tell what the source of the problem is would be to attach an external drive to the computer that originally made the DVD coasters, install the same version of Mac OS X on that external drive, boot to that external drive's OS, then install Retrospect 6.1.230 and last RDU on that external drive, try that. That will eliminate the OS as an issue.

 

Another experiment you could do is to put one of the computers that can see the media into Target Disk Mode (if the optical drive in that computer can be seen in TDM), and use that as the drive on one of the other computers. That would let you isolate drive issues from computer / OS issues.

 

Retrospect 6.1 was designed for PPC and Mac OS 10.4.x. It runs emulated under Rosetta on an Intel Mac with the Carbon API (which has its own problems when run under Rosetta), and there are some issues with Leopard (10.5.x), but not the serious ones with Snow Leopard.

 

Russ

[bendingpixels]

Thanks Russ, All three computers, including the macbook pro and the MacPro are running 10.5.8. They are nearly identical installs since I use my computers for creating and rendering graphics, and I need to switch from computer to computer quite a bit.

 

The plot thickens though. On the computer that could read the disk, I started a rebuild of the dataset using just that disk, and marking the others as missing. (28 other disks, whew) The rebuild has been running continuously for 2 days now, and is showing a completed data amount that far exceeds the original size of all the data on all the disks. I'm going to try force quitting it now,a nd then move the original dataset onto that comuputer and then see if it can just read the contents of the disk.

 

The external drive test seems a bit extreme since I have one computer that can read the disks and 2 that can't. I'll have some time to do that soon, and I'll give it a try.

[rhwalker]

Ok. Based on this most recent report, it sounds like the LEDs in the three drives have aged differently, or the lens might be dirty in one of the computers' optical drives.

 

Because the computers are so similar, it might be an interesting experiment to swap the optical drives in the two MacPros (don't even try to open the Macbook pro), see if the problem follows the drive or stays with the computer. I bet it follows the drive.

 

I would suspect that you've got a combination of marginal media and marginal drive.

 

Russ

[bendingpixels]

Hi Russ, it seems like that particular disk is just toast. I tried restoring from that one, and get a failure message every time. but other disks are working just fine.

 

So now that I know that all disks are not created equally, what brand do you recommend for long term storage?

 

Also, I'm thinking of upgrading to blue-ray. Will I need to upgrade my retrospect too? Based on your comments above it sounds like the new version will not be able to read my old datasets anyway, so should I probably start migrating away from retrospect?

[rhwalker]

Sorry, can't help there. We use tape, no optical.

 

As far as whether an upgrade to Retrospect 8 would help, see the Read Me for Retrospect 8 regarding non-support of optical media at the present time:

Retrospect 8 Read Me

 

Retrospect 8 can "sorta", "kinda", work with optical media if you do a magic dance to enable limited optical media support. Not clear what devices, because documentation is very sparse with Retrospect 8. You might want to contact EMC support to get the answer to that question:

Contact EMC Retrospect support

 

Perhaps when the support burden gets too high because of the lack of documentation, creation of a manual or hiring of a tech writer will receive some priority. Right now, there is no tech writer on the Retrospect staff. See this note from the product manager, over five months ago: Where the @#%& is my Retrospect 8 User's Guide?

 

Russ

[bendingpixels]

OUCH!! There's not a lot in the positive column for version 8.

 

I guess I might need to spring for a tape drive then. I've held off all these years because of the cost, but if there is no support for optical media, it doesn't look like there is much choice.

 

Are there other archiving options besides retrospect out there?

 

 

[rhwalker]

OUCH!! There's not a lot in the positive column for version 8.

Well, it's new software. It had to be a complete rewrite because the old code base, with its history in Mac OS Classic, didn't port to the Cocoa API, and thus couldn't compile to Intel code. There are other technical reasons why it had to be a complete rewrite.

 

In time it may be good, but right now, it's a bit immature.

 

Are there other archiving options besides retrospect out there?

Yes, but this forum is not the right place to have that discussion.

 

Search the macos-x-server mailing list at Apple for a discussion. This subject comes up every few months, and has just recently surfaced in the last month. If you want a reliable, supported backup solution that backs up a range of clients over a network, you are probably talking about $8000 or more.

 

Russ

[bendingpixels]

Thanks again for all your help. I'll check out that apple discussion, and see what people are saying. I would rather not move away from Retrospect since I've been using it for so long. Maybe I'll wait a bit and see if version 8 picks up it's game.

 

rob