Guest Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 PowerMac G4 QuickSilver DP 800MHz, OS 9.2.2, 768MB RAM, 80GB HD, SuperDrive, dual monitor setup (17" LCD and a projector). Backup system using Retrospect Express v5.0.238 and Retrospect Driver Update 3.4, to external FireWire device. The internal ATA hard drive, partitioned into 3 volumes, is backed up once weekly, in an overnight, unattended operation. The backup itself works great, no errors, no problems restoring. Since this is an overnight operation, which auto-launches at 1am, I have Retrospect programmed to shut down the Mac once the backup completes. Here's the problem: The shut down always fails. Once the backup completes Retrospect displays a message "Quitting" and just sits at that screen. [Of course, it's not supposed to quit but shut down.] Several hours later, first person in for the morning hits a key on the keyboard, and at that point Retrospect will shutdown the Mac. Here is a sample from the log: Quote: ? Retrospect Express version 5.0.238 autolaunch at 4/17/2003 1:00 AM + Retrospect Driver Update, version 3.4.103 + Recycle backup using Lab_Backup-WK3 at 4/17/2003 1:00 AM To backup set Lab_Backup-WK3… 4/17/2003 1:00:47 AM: Recycle backup: The backup set was reset - 4/17/2003 1:00:47 AM: Copying Mac46… 4/17/2003 1:16:38 AM: Comparing Mac46… 4/17/2003 1:29:21 AM: Execution completed successfully. Completed: 28368 files, 3.3 GB, with 6% compression Performance: 234.3 MB/minute (213.9 copy, 259.1 compare) Duration: 00:28:34 (00:00:27 idle/loading/preparing) - 4/17/2003 1:29:21 AM: Copying SCRATCH… 4/17/2003 1:29:28 AM: Comparing SCRATCH… 4/17/2003 1:29:34 AM: Execution completed successfully. Completed: 65 files, 20.5 MB, with 0% compression Performance: 204.1 MB/minute (204.1 copy, 204.1 compare) Duration: 00:00:13 (00:00:01 idle/loading/preparing) - 4/17/2003 1:29:34 AM: Copying DATA_46… 4/17/2003 2:46:52 AM: Comparing DATA_46… 4/17/2003 4:17:37 AM: Execution completed successfully. Completed: 5565 files, 22.8 GB, with 0% compression Performance: 277.5 MB/minute (301.8 copy, 256.8 compare) Duration: 02:48:03 (00:00:04 idle/loading/preparing) 4/17/2003 4:17:37 AM: Execution completed successfully. Total performance: 271.2 MB/minute with 0% compression Total duration: 03:16:50 (00:00:32 idle/loading/preparing) ! 4/17/2003 11:27:03 AM: System clock and tick timer appear inconsistent, code 2. Dates, times and statistics may be incorrect. Shutdown at 4/17/2003 11:27 AM There are no other programs (other than Stickies) running during the backup. In fact, the Mac is freshly booted up at 12:30am to be sure that memory is clean. File Sharing and antivirus software are both turned off the evening before the backup. The following troubleshooting has been tried, none of which has helped at all: 1. Clean re-installation of Retrospect, re-create scripts (more than once). 2. Clean re-installation of OS 9.2.2. 3. Reset PRAM. 4. Reset firmware. 5. Run disk utilities such as Norton, Disk Warrior, and Techtool Pro to check for any fragmentation and corruption, or any hardware issue. 6. Turn off all energy-saver features such as sleep, display sleep, and hard drive spin-down. 6. Reformat internal hard drive. 7. Replace internal hard drive (for other reasons). This Mac has no problem other than that RE does not shut down the Mac once the backup is done. The Mac can start itself up and shut itself down via the Energy Saver control panel with no problem, but RE does not shut it down. I have two other Macs that run similar unattended backups, that have no problem at all shutting down the Mac when done. One difference is that those other Macs are running Retrospect 4.3 rather than 5.0. This appears to be a bug in RE 5.0, at least as regards this particular Mac's basic setup. Could Dantz tech support kindly check into this? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 Try booting into base extensions (plus any extensions that may be required to access your Firewire hard drive). Set the script to run a few minutes in the future - does the machine shut down? If running your normal script is time intensive, you can set up a test script of a small amount of data to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Amy, Thanks for your message. I have done as you have asked, and have duplicated the shut down problem exactly. The backup ran and completed with no problem at all except for the Mac shut down at the end. I created a new set in Extensions Manager based on the Mac OS 9.2.2 Base set, and added back only those extensions for RE and for the firewire device (LaCie). Rebooted and ran a scheduled test script that backed up only a subset of the data on the internal HD. Here is the excerpt from the log: ==================== ∆ Retrospect Express version 5.0.238 autolaunch at 4/30/2003 10:30 AM + Retrospect Driver Update, version 3.5.104 + Recycle backup using Testing_Backup-WK2 at 4/30/2003 10:30 AM To backup set Testing_Backup-WK2… 4/30/2003 10:30:53 AM: Recycle backup: The backup set was reset - 4/30/2003 10:30:53 AM: Copying Applications (Mac OS 9) on Mac46… 4/30/2003 10:40:42 AM: Comparing Applications (Mac OS 9) on Mac46… 4/30/2003 10:51:10 AM: Execution completed successfully. Completed: 23934 files, 2.7 GB, with 7% compression Performance: 277.3 MB/minute (294.1 copy, 262.3 compare) Duration: 00:20:17 (00:00:29 idle/loading/preparing) - 4/30/2003 10:51:10 AM: Copying Learning Photoshop Through Art on DATA_46… 4/30/2003 10:53:14 AM: Comparing Learning Photoshop Through Art on DATA_46… 4/30/2003 10:55:39 AM: Execution completed successfully. Completed: 505 files, 664.2 MB, with 12% compression Performance: 298.4 MB/minute (326.6 copy, 274.8 compare) Duration: 00:04:29 (00:00:02 idle/loading/preparing) - 4/30/2003 10:55:39 AM: Copying SCRATCH… 4/30/2003 10:55:56 AM: Comparing SCRATCH… 4/30/2003 10:56:07 AM: Execution completed successfully. Completed: 1260 files, 35.7 MB, with 9% compression Performance: 164.7 MB/minute (142.7 copy, 194.6 compare) Duration: 00:00:28 (00:00:02 idle/loading/preparing) 4/30/2003 10:56:08 AM: Execution completed successfully. Total performance: 279.1 MB/minute with 8% compression Total duration: 00:25:14 (00:00:33 idle/loading/preparing) Shutdown at 4/30/2003 10:58 AM ==================== I watched the backup as it was finishing up, and can note these additional details for you: 1. Once the backup was complete, RE displayed a message window "Preparing to Shut Down" and counted down 10 seconds. 2. Once the count-down was complete, RE displayed a small rectangular windows saying "Quitting. . ." 3. At that same moment the Retrospect cursor-cube, which was in the upper-left corner, had the litle black box within the cube-cursor stop moving. The Apple menu displayed onto the screen (as if the little apple had been clicked) and all activity on the Mac ceased. 4. The Mac remained like this, not frozen but in a state of 'suspended animation.' I left it like this for a couple of minutes, never having touched the Mac at all during the entire backup test, then moved the mouse. 5. When I moved the mouse, other RE pull-down menus at the top of the screen began to display. When I clicked the mouse, the Mac then finally shut down. What seems to me is happening, is that somehow just at the moment when RE should be shutting down the Mac, a mouse click is being generated by the software; and that mouse click is interfering with the shutdown. This appears to be an issue with RE 5, as I have two other Macs running similiar backup scenarios with no shutdown problems, but those others run RE 4.3. This now appears to be all the testing I can do at my end. Would you please report this issue to the appropriate personell at Dantz? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 Could AmyC or another Dantz representative kindly update me on the progress of Dantz' resolving this shutdown issue with RE5? Thank you, Lorraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 We can't reproduce it. What kind of mouse are you using? Make sure your mouse drivers are up to date. If using a non-Apple mouse, try using the mouse that came with the Apple for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 AmyC, Thanks for your message. Using the Apple Pro Keyboad and Apple Pro Mouse that were included with the Mac. There are no special drivers involved, only what is included with Mac OS 9.2.2. Have you tried to reproduce this issue under the conditions my backup runs? Meaning that the Mac boots itself up unattended (energy saver control panel) and the RE script auto-launches 30 minutes later? And no human intervention at all, not even to touch the keyboard and/or mouse, from the time the Mac boots itself up until the time the backup completes and RE attempts to shut down the Mac? This may be important. Also, if possible, Dantz may want to test using the particular model of Mac that we are using, with this same rev of the Mac OS, in case there might be a hardware or firmware inter-operability issue. [see original post above for these specs.] I'll check again here toward the end of the week, in case there might be a post back for me by then. Thank you, Lorraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 Hi Lorraine - Thanks! I followed the steps you clearly outlined and was able to reproduce the problem. I'll log the issue with our Quality Assurance department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 AmyC, Thank you for your help and for the update. This is good news. I'm wondering how things will proceed forward from this point. Will someone from Dantz be posting back into this thread when there is a resolution? Or would I be contacted by email? A post or an email would be helpful, if that would be realistic. If not, I could plan to check the downloads area periodically to see if/when an update for RE 5 has been released, and then test to see if it would resolve this issue. Thank you, Lorraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 The word back from our Development team is that this is a long standing Apple bug. We were able to work around it with 4.3 and earlier. However, 5.0 is a Carbon based application and there is no programmatic way to solve it at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 AmyC, Thank you for the update. Oh no, this is bad news indeed. [Could this issue be entered into the Dantz knowledge base for RE 5?] One last question, and I'm not sure if you can answer this. We don't really need to use RE 5 on this Mac, version 4.3 would work fine for our setup, but since v4.3 is no longer available for purchase we had to buy RE 5. Would it be possible for us to obtain a serial number for RE 4.3 so that we could use it in place of this copy of RE 5 (preferably without having to spend more money -- I'm at a non-profit) ?? If possible, this would allow us to work around this shutdown issue, which we would really like to resolve if at all possible. If it would make any difference, our copy of RE 5 is an upgrade from a copy of RE 4.1, so we have both serial numbers. [i'm assuming that an RE 5 serial number won't work with the RE 4.3 installer, which installer I do have a copy of.] If this is not normally done, perhaps an exception could be made in this case, due to this technical issue between RE 5 and the Mac OS? Thanks, Lorraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 Hi Lorraine - Yes, we can definitely make sure the issue is written up in the Knowledgebase. Please contact Customer Service directly for questions on 'downgrading' your license code. They will be better able to address the issue. http://www.dantz.com/en/support/contact.dtml Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 Amy, Just fyi, customer service was able to help us with a downgrade to RE 4.3. Once I get this installed we should be all set. Thanks for all your help, Lorraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 Thanks for the update! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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