throatmonster Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 I've been trying for months now to get Retrospect stablized and working properly. I cannot get consistent nighly backups with Retrospect Server 5.0 version. The 2 biggest problems: 1. Retrospect dialogs about errors connecting with clients, and a number of other dialogs, completely lock up the application. This causes nighly backups to fail well over 90% of the time. This is unacceptable. 2. Retrospect cannot even copy a large file from one drive to another. These are local drives attached to the computer dedicated to running Retrospect Backup Server. Retrospect is simply unable to do what I bought it for. I've fought with it too long now, wasting untold hours of my time babysitting an application that should be able to run un-attended. There are no answers for my problems from Dantz, either. From the forum rules... "You agree not to post material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of another's privacy, or that violates any law." 1. My horrible experience with Retrospect is absolutely true. It does not work for our organzation. 2. If speaking the truth - that Retrospect does not work for me - is defamatory, well, I guess you've got me there. 3. Nothing else in this message could possibly be grounds to delete this post from the forum. I'd like answers to these very real problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeDave Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 In reply to: I've been trying for months now to get Retrospect stablized and working properly Gee, you should have posted here a long time ago! Lots of users had problems that were either solved with community input or recoginzed by Dantz as being an issue that needed to be addressed. In reply to: 1 and 2 {minimum information snipped} Can you be less vague about what's happening? 1: Exactly what error messages are you getting? When do you get them? 2: What sort of operation are you attempting that you cannot "copy a large file?" What happens when you try? What is your hardware configuration? What is your network configuration? Do you really want help from the readers of the Forum? Or are you just looking for a place to vent your frustrations? (either is fine with me, but I can only offer help with the first!) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throatmonster Posted June 28, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 >> Can you be less vague about what's happening? I'm just getting tired of going over and over all the details, configurations, etc. Like I said, I've been working on this a long time, and have never gotten any resolution. >>1: >>Exactly what error messages are you getting? >>When do you get them? Here's 2 to start out with: "Net retry on client XXXX" - note that this client is on a T1 in a remote office with the same provider my office has (T1 as well). There are 5 router hops between the two locations, and the network connection is solid as a rock. "Sorry, could not compress catalog (volume full)" - Yeah, the volume full is my problem, but the fact that the program JUST STOPS THERE waiting for someone to dismiss the dialog is NOT my fault. All my regular backup scripts reset the storage set, and while I am a bit thin on space (I've got new, bigger hard drives on the way), There's enough space to do reset backups. I'd just like Retrospect to time out on the catalog error, and go on about it's business, instead of sitting there dead in the water! >>2: >>What sort of operation are you attempting that you cannot "copy a large file?" >>What happens when you try? Might I please refer you to the following thread: http://www.dantz.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=Desktopworkgrupx&Number=3646&Search=true&Forum=Desktopworkgrupx&Words=derrickfogle&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=3646 It just flat doesn't work. Finder copies work fine. It's a problem with Retrospect. >>What is your hardware configuration? iMac 233 running 10.1.5, 384Mb RAM 10Mb internal ATA 2 60Gb external QPS firewire drives Retrospect - latest release with the latest patches >>What is your network configuration? Switched 100BaseT on local LAN T1 to local ISP (http://more.net - a university-based state-funded network for educational institutions and non-profits in Missouri) T1 from same ISP in Kansas City 384K from same ISP in Springfield, MO various DSL providers to other locations; all fixed IP adddresses. I'll note that we run a 24/7 operation in the medical field. We have virtually no other problems with our network config, despite constant heavy use with rather finicky database connections. >>Do you really want help from the readers of the Forum? Or are you just looking for a place to vent >>your frustrations? (either is fine with me, but I can only offer help with the first!) Both. Retrospect has truly drawn my ire. I'm angry because after walking a tightrope with this application for the last 3 months, I finally ran into a crash that needed data restored from a backup. And guess what? The backup didn't run the night before, because Retrospect was sitting there, 14 hours into a backup of a remote client, with the "Net Retry" dialog box hanging there, waiting to be clicked, and the client I needed to restore was after that particular client. The previous day's backup (that didn't happen until the next morning because of the same problem) helped, but a lot of work went into a specific file that should have gotten backed up. I might also refer you to another thread, which details a problem that has not been fixed yet: http://www.dantz.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=Desktopworkgrupx&Number=2879&Search=true&Forum=Desktopworkgrupx&Words=derrickfogle&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=2879 So it's not that I wasn't on this forum early on. I was. I also had a couple conversations with tech support (after being unable to even reach tech support for the majority of my 30-day support because the lines were always busy). There have been absolutely no answers to any of these problems. Before I ever bought Retrospect, I discussed the "locks up the application" dialogs (which were also a problem in 4.3) with a sales rep. I never got a straight answer out of them then, and I should have had the hackles up on my back then. Now I have an straight answer from my own experience: I've given you 2 distinct instances of 'locking up the application' dialog boxes, and I'm quite certain there are at least 2 others. And don't tell me "well, we need those too" because that's just doging the issue. If I could get some help resolving just the two I've documented so far, that will be much better than what I've got so far, and might give me a scrap of confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeDave Posted June 30, 2002 Report Share Posted June 30, 2002 In reply to: I'm just getting tired of going over and over all the details, configurations, etc. That's funny; this thread was the first post you ever put forth. In reply to: note that this client is on a T1 in a remote office But again, you only identify the remote configuation as "a client." Perhaps it would be helpful for all concerned if you specified the hardware/software on the remote client. Yes, I've also read of people having a "net retry" from hell. But it never has happened to me (each time I've seen a "net retry" dialog box the backup either continues after a bit, or Retrospect gives up and goes on (and the client, both OS 9 and OS X, resets)). So knowing how your remote client is configured might go a long way towards identifying (or confirming, if Dantz already knows) what causes the problem. In reply to: the volume full is my problem, but the fact that the program JUST STOPS THERE waiting for someone to dismiss the dialog is NOT my fault. No, it's probably not. But what are you doing when you get the dialog box? Is it a File Backup Set to the external HD? Is it a tape or CD backup set? Come on, get specific. It's such a waste of time complaining about an error you get without explaining what you did that led to the error! Are there Steps to Reproduce that will cause Retrospect to JUST STOP THERE each time you repeat them? In reply to: Might I please refer you to the following thread You might, but they do little to understand what problem _you_ are having. The two threads by... Ah, I see. These are yours. Nice. Very nice. Much easier to hunt all over the forum doing detective work then for you to just make it clear that you've posted here under a different handle. Sigh. The threads: http://www.dantz.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Desktopworkgrupx&Number=3646&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1 and http://www.dantz.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Desktopworkgrupx&Number=3646&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1 Make clear a few things that are helpful to the audience at large: 1- When duplicating to your external FW drive, you get an error on a particular file (MarkDaily and DerrickDaily). These files might be Retrospect File Backup Set files. 2- You're glad no one else is having the problem. 3- You're not certain that it's not hardware related. So instead of making the very broad statement in this thread "Retrospect cannot even copy a large file from one drive to another" perhaps you could be specific and say "Retrospect cannot duplicate a File Backup Set file without miscompare error IN THIS SITUATION" (then describe your situation, including the steps you take that first create the file, then the steps that are taken to execute the Duplicate, etc). Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throatmonster Posted July 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 >>But again, you only identify the remote configuation as "a client." Perhaps it would be helpful >>for all concerned if you specified the hardware/software on the remote client. They are mostly iMac 450's running OS9.1, 256Mb RAM. There are a few others (an older machine or two, and a couple of G3 and G4 towers). All of them are running at least 9.0.4 or later. Other than getting backed up properly, they all perform as expected - able to connect - and stay connected - to databases at the home office, communicate with mail, intranet, and file servers at the home office. We run our business on these computers, we just can't seem to get them backed up consistently using Retrospect. There are specific computers that more commonly have specific problems, but the errors are not limited to a specific client, and specific clients do not consistently have specific problems. >>Is it a File Backup Set to the external HD? Is it a tape or CD backup set? Come on, get specific. >>It's such a waste of time complaining about an error you get without explaining what you did >>that led to the error! Are there Steps to Reproduce that will cause Retrospect to JUST STOP >>THERE each time you repeat them? Yes. No. The referenced thread already answers that. More information was made available in earlier posts which were taken offline by Dantz, as well. I have the 'backup server' always backing up our laptops to a storageset file on the internal ATA hard drive (I've already stated what the specs of the backup server machine are, BTW). I have a "copy" script attempting to copy these files from the internal ATA drive to the external firewire drives (two firewire HD's that are used for storageset storage on alternating days). To reproduce the problem consistently? - just let the copy script run. Except, as usual, every now and then, it works like I would expect it to. >>one drive to another" perhaps you could be specific and say "Retrospect cannot duplicate a >>File Backup Set file without miscompare error IN THIS SITUATION" (then describe your >>situation, including the steps you take that first create the file, then the steps that are >>taken to execute the Duplicate, etc). How many times have I stated that "Retrospect does not work for our organization."? That's the truth: it doesn't. Retrospect is the only application that runs on a computer dedicated to being a backup server. Everything is being driven by Retrospect scripts. Retrospect consistently fails to back up all the computers in our organization each night because it needs attention while it runs to dismiss dialog boxes - and there's no one there to give it attention. It also crashes - hard - when trying to define a subvolume inside a user's documents and settings folder on a Windows computer. It also consistently fails when using it's own copy script to copy a storageset file from an internal ATA drive to an external firewire drive. But the "dialog box that stops the rest of the application" is the *ONE* showstopper problem that I feel powerless against. I can copy those files consistently with CRON jobs or even AppleScript; I can set up Windows clients to back up stuff from a different directory. The one thing I can't do is have the backup system babysat all night while it runs through it's backup scripts in case it comes up with one of these application-stopping dialogs. I just went to check the system and, amazingly enough, it actually stumbled through it's entire set of daily backup scripts on Friday. That's probably the first time in over 2 weeks it's actually gotten through them all. The only problems it had were a few clients not visible (which is almost always the case in our organization, and thank goodness Retrospect at least handles those without stopping the application!). So technically, in the current configuration, with the current hardware and software, it *does* work *sometimes*. Problem is that is doesn't work often enough to be reliable or useful. Looking forward to the next admonishment of not providing enough information... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throatmonster Posted July 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 >>Perhaps it would be helpful for all concerned It appears that you are the only one on this forum that is concerned. And it also seems that you are more concerned with trying to make me look sloppy than trying to understand the problems I have with Retrospect. So far, you have successfully reinforced and added to the negativeness and lack of value I perceive in the product. Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeDave Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 In reply to: Looking forward to the next admonishment of not providing enough information... Here's the best I can do about that... In asking for STR (Steps to Reproduce) the "Can't compress catalog" error message, you explained your setup that has both backing up to a file and duplicating to an external volume. Since the Duplicate action has no catalog, I'm forced to guess that the error comes during backups to the file. Here are steps that I have pieced together from your posts. Please point out where they differ from what you are actually seeing/doing: 1- Backup Server Mode to write data to a File Backup Set. 2- The file lives on a Destination with an (unknown) amount of free space that is not enough for Retrospect to handle the file with the options you have chosen (note that the default for a File Backup Set is "Don't compress catalog information"). 3- At some point during the Backup Server operation, Retrospect hangs up with the dialog box complaining about not enough space. Is this correct? So two questions I would ask are: A- How much empty space is available on the Destination drive when this error is encountered (I ask not because I disagree that the warning shouldn't halt the backup, but because knowing this information helps to reproduce and isolate the problem). B- If the Backup Set options are restet to the default of "Don't compress catalog information" will the operation complete with the same amount of free space? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throatmonster Posted July 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 >> B- If the Backup Set options are restet to the default of >> "Don't compress catalog information" will the operation >> complete with the same amount of free space? All the backup sets that originally came from the 4.3 installation had compression turned on. The ones I created in 5.0 did not. I have turned off catalog compression for all backup sets. I have not seen the error pop back up yet, but I've only tried running 2 backups to see. I won't really know until the system runs it's usual routine overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throatmonster Posted July 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 >> 1- Backup Server Mode to write data to a File Backup Set. Yes, but only for a few of the clients (4 laptops). 2- The file lives on a Destination with an (unknown) amount of free space that is not enough for Retrospect to handle the file with the options you have chosen (note that the default for a File Backup Set is "Don't compress catalog information"). Yes, but not the backup files for the laptops. Copying those storageset files with a Duplicate script step is one of my problems, but has nothing to do with the 'catalog compression failed' problem. 3- At some point during the Backup Server operation, Retrospect hangs up with the dialog box complaining about not enough space. No. At some point with a regular backup script operation, is when I get the 'catalog compression' or 'net retry' dialog box. I have two slightly different strategies working simultaneously. All the desktops, servers, etc. that I back up are on regular backup scripts, with a 2-week rotation of storageset files that are stored on 2 external FireWire drives. It is during the operation of these regular backup script operations that I get the 'catalog compression' dialog that brings Retrospect to a halt, or the 'Net retry' error that just keeps trying and trying and trying and never times out. For the laptops, I have a Backup Server script doing incremental backups to storageset files on the internal ATA drive. Then, I have a batch of Duplicate scripts that copy those to appropriate places on the external FW drives so that I have 2 weeks worth of them stored, as well (since backup server scripts can't do 'reset media' backups). It is these Duplicate scripts that get chronic miscompare problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throatmonster Posted July 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 >> A- How much empty space is available on the Destination >> drive when this error is encountered (I ask not because I >> disagree that the warning shouldn't halt the backup, but >> because knowing this information helps to reproduce and >> isolate the problem). 600Kb on one of them, 1.6Mb on the other (currently). Mind you the last backup that was run did not get the error, meaning that someone's backed up data was probably smaller than the previous one and freed up enough space for that to work. Plus, my new drives will be here, and I'll more than double my previous storage capacity, so I probably won't see that specific reason for a catalog failure again. But, I'm not out of the woods on it. I know I've seen catalog failures that did not list 'volume full' as the reason for the problem. But I guess I'll have to wait until that failure occurs again to get more info on the problem. That's OK, it shouldn't be too terribly long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeDave Posted July 1, 2002 Report Share Posted July 1, 2002 I've tried to reproduce this using my own steps but was unable to get the error. Here's what I did: 1- Configure Backup Server Script to backup 3.3G of data from OS X Client machine to a recycled File Backup Set on a volume with just about 3.3G remaining space. The Destination volume is a partition of my internal boot drive. 2- Run server, observe backup complete and catalog compress. 3- After backup the volume containing the backup file had 168k free. Just read your report that the error comes on regular script executions, not during Backup Server mode... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throatmonster Posted July 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2002 I haven't gotten the 'catalog compression' error since I turned catalog compression off for all my storagesets. Thanks for that suggestion. I'm also migrating to new, bigger hard drives right now. That will probably take care of that problem, although I'm still thinking that there is a different reason for catalog compression to fail that I run into sometimes. But I can't find specific notes about it right now. If I can dig that up, I'll post them here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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