Trouble seeing DVD drive in OSX 10.5.4

[kn.young]

I've been been using the following to back up to DVDs for sometime without any problem under 10.4.x, but have had intermittent but recurring problems since upgrading to 10.5.4 about a month ago:

 

1. G5 1.8 PPC 768MB

2. LaCie DL d2 DVDRW (USB2 & FW - I used FW) with a TSSTCorp CD/DVDW SH-S162L mechanism.

3. TDK DVD +RW disks

4. Back up 6 nights a week, alternating between 2 disks, Retrospect set to recycle, and auto launch.

5. Latest Retrospect software for OSX, and current firmware for the LaCie.

 

This has worked without a flaw for quite awhile, but now Retrospect often can't find the device. Here's the routine:

 

1. Evening of day 1: I have to restart the G5, therefore very few applications open at this point; the destination disk mounts on the desktop (which it never did in OSX 10.4.x); I run Retrospect and use Configure/Device to swap disks. The disk unmounts from the desktop while Retrospect is running, but mounts again after it quits.

 

2. Morning of day 2 (G5 runs all night): backup successful, Retrospect quit, disk not mounted.

 

3. Evening of day 2: I again run Retrospect to swap the disks. The disk mounts again after it quits. Now there are a number of other apps open that I've used throughout the day.

 

4. Morning of day 3: Retrospect is still running, with the "Available storage devices" window open, not showing the LaCie. The disk is mounted on the desktop.

 

I've duplicated this pattern over and over. Here's another routine that I've duplicated, that always succeeds:

 

1. Evening of day 1: with autolaunch disabled, I start the routine by restarting the G5; I run Retrospect to swap disks; I leave Retrospect running, and of course, when it's running, the disk is never mounted on the desktop.

 

2. Morning of day 2: the backup was successful; Retrospect quit; and the disk is not mounted on the desktop.

 

As long as nothing interrupts this cycle (like a re-start for another reason), it just keeps working perfectly, even with lots of other applications open.

 

I'm pretty much at a complete loss as to what's causing this. Any ideas? A memory problem? A problem with RetroRun?

 

Ken

[kn.young]

Is there a way to get some help on this? Anybody?

[CallMeDave]

the destination disk mounts on the desktop (which it never did in OSX 10.4.x)

 

Just to be specific in the language, a "Destination" in Retrospect is the Backup Set; in your case, the disk is a Member of that Backup Set.

 

The ability for a Member of a CD/DVD backup set to mount under the finder is provided by a file system plug in that is installed by default into (I think) /System/Library/Filesystems/ (I don't ever install it myself, so I can't check here).

 

- Did you re-install Retrospect after you updated to Leopard? That might explain why you didn't see disk mounting of Retrospect volumes before.

 

> 1. Evening of day 1: I have to restart the G5

 

You have to? Why?

 

> Retrospect is still running, with the "Available storage devices" window open, not showing the LaCie

Well, that would be a problem. You use Configure->Devices to eject the disk sometimes, so it's obviously showing in the list then, but other times the disk isn't listed?

 

- Is the drive supported directly by Retrospect? Or did you create a custom configuration in order for it to work?

 

- What version of Retrospect? What version of the RDU? ("Latest" isn't enough information)

 

When the drive doesn't show up in the Available Devices window, what do you see in

Configure->Devices->Device Status... ?

 

RetroRun and the file system plug in are likely red herrings here; RetroRun only auto-launches, and has nothing to do with seeing devices. And the File System Plug-In is just a Finder thing; Retrospect works perfectly fine without having it installed at all.

 

> 4. Morning of day 3: Retrospect is still running, with the "Available storage devices"

> window open, not showing the LaCie. The disk is mounted on the desktop.

What happens if you quit and restart Retrospect at this point?

[kn.young]

Dave, thanks for taking the time to look at my problem. I really do appreciate the help.

 

- Did you re-install Retrospect after you updated to Leopard? That might explain why you didn't see disk mounting of Retrospect volumes before.

I installed a second internal hard drive, installed Leopard on that, imported my settings, downloaded and installed Retrospect, amended my scripts.

 

> 1. Evening of day 1: I have to restart the G5

 

You have to? Why?

 

When Retrospect fails to see the LaCie drive, this is the only method I've discovered to get it to work. So in my description, I just began at that point - everything working. At this point in the sequence I have also tried to unmount the disk. When I drag it to the trash, either nothing happens, or I get an alert, "Operation could not be completed because 1 or more items cannot be found (Error code -43)." If I try to eject it in the finder, I get an alert, "The disk 'name of disk' is in use and could not be ejected. Try quitting applications and try again." I've quit all applications, but still couldn't get the disk unmounted. Eventually, I discovered that by restarting the Mac, Retrospect will see the LaCie and the disk.

 

The ability for a Member of a CD/DVD backup set to mount under the finder is provided by a file system plug in that is installed by default into (I think) /System/Library/Filesystems/ (I don't ever install it myself, so I can't check here).

 

At that location I do have "retrospectcd.fs." I also checked on the other hard drive, which still has Tiger, and it's there also. Hoever, the disks never mounted on the desktop in Tiger, so I just figured that was normal.

 

You use Configure->Devices to eject the disk sometimes, so it's obviously showing in the list then, but other times the disk isn't listed?

Not only the disk, also the drive isn't listed. Both always appear in the list right after a restart. Both appear if I leave Retrospect running. What seems to break this is this: I quit Retrospect (which causes the disk to mount on the desktop), work all day with a number of applications, then walk away at the end of the day and expect it to autolaunch and run on schedule.

 

- Is the drive supported directly by Retrospect? Or did you create a custom configuration in order for it to work?

The drive wasn't supported when I bought it some time ago, so yes, I created a custom configuration with the TDK +RW disks, and it's worked perfectly until now. That .rdi was copied over to my new hard drive. What I haven't tried yet is to recreate the custom configuration in Leopard.

 

- What version of Retrospect? What version of the RDU? ("Latest" isn't enough information)

Retrospect 6.1.230 and RDU 6.1.15.101. I made sure that everthing was current when I made the change to Leopard.

 

When the drive doesn't show up in the Available Devices window, what do you see in

Configure->Devices->Device Status... ?

As I recall, first, when this problem is occurring, it takes a very long time before the Available Devices Window, and then the Device Status window will open. The Device Status window correctly listed both devices - the built-in CD/DVD and the LaCie, but the Configure button was always grayed out for the LaCie, but not the built-in CD/DVD. When this problem is not occurring, the button is not grayed out. I will see if I can get it to fail today, then confirm this.

 

> 4. Morning of day 3: Retrospect is still running, with the "Available storage devices"

> window open, not showing the LaCie. The disk is mounted on the desktop.

 

What happens if you quit and restart Retrospect at this point?

 

This being the point it fails. Nothing different if I quit and restart Retrospect. Or log out and back in. The only way I've discovered to get it to work is to restart the Mac.

 

 

[CallMeDave]

I installed a second internal hard drive

...

built-in CD/DVD and the LaCie

 

OK, two entirely new data points that should be explored.

 

- When you do not see "the LaCie" in the Available Devices window, do you see the "built-in DD/DVD"?

 

- Is it possible that you did something to the hardware (bent ribbon cable, loosened connector, etc) on anything inside the computer when you installed the new hard drive?

 

It _sounds_ like a hardware issue, and the fact that the problems started after you worked inside the case means you should at least address that possibility.

 

Dave

[kn.young]

I installed a second internal hard drive

...

built-in CD/DVD and the LaCie

 

OK, two entirely new data points that should be explored.

 

- When you do not see "the LaCie" in the Available Devices window, do you see the "built-in DD/DVD"?

 

- Is it possible that you did something to the hardware (bent ribbon cable, loosened connector, etc) on anything inside the computer when you installed the new hard drive?

 

It _sounds_ like a hardware issue, and the fact that the problems started after you worked inside the case means you should at least address that possibility.

 

Dave

 

1. Yes, I always see the built-in drive, no problem.

 

2. On this G5 the hard drive bays are at the back, up at the top. The drive just slides in, and the connector is sitting right there. So the new drive installed perfectly, and I sure don't recall even touching anything else inside. I'm very careful about getting inside the Mac. Plus, I'm not having any problems at all with the new drive. The FireWire cable connects down below that, and I wasn't anywhere near that. In fact, there's a housing that covers all that area, and you can't even get near it.

 

3. One of the first things I thought of was the Firewire cable, because I had to disconnect and reconnect it, so I I took it off the drive and Mac and reconnected it. There are no kinks in it, never has been, and it looks fine.

 

[CallMeDave]

Do you have another known-good FW cable you can try?

 

... At this point in the sequence I have also tried to unmount the disk. When I drag it to the trash, either nothing happens, or I get an alert, "Operation could not be completed because 1 or more items cannot be found (Error code -43)." If I try to eject it in the finder, I get an alert, "The disk 'name of disk' is in use and could not be ejected. Try quitting applications and try again." I've quit all applications, but still couldn't get the disk unmounted. Eventually, I discovered that by restarting the Mac, Retrospect will see the LaCie and the disk.

 

I'm not entirely clear what point in the sequence is being referenced above, but no matter. Here's a helpful terminal command, using lsof (list open files) that might help you discover what process has files open on the DVD:

 

lsof | grep /Volumes/MountedRetrospectDVD

 

If terminal commands are new to you, you can use the Tab key to auto-expand item names. So if you type /Vol (capitalization matters) and then Tab, the shell will expand that to /Volumes/ Then if you type the first couple of letters of your mounted Retrospect volume and press Tab, the shell will auto enter the full name of that, too.

 

Press Return, and wait to see if you get back a list of running processes.

 

 

You could also try un-installing Retrospect (after making a copy of your config and device files), then re-installing with a custom install of just the application. This will take the file system plug in out of the testing, and it won't mount on the Macintosh at all.

 

 

Dave

[kn.young]

You could also try un-installing Retrospect (after making a copy of your config and device files), then re-installing with a custom install of just the application. This will take the file system plug in out of the testing, and it won't mount on the Macintosh at all.

 

 

Dave

 

Dave, I'm working on all your suggestions/ideas, but I'm only responding to this one right now because I think we're on to something here. Why not just remove retrospectcd.fs temporarily? That's what I just did. Now it's beginning to behave like it did in Tiger: when I restart, the tray opens; when I close it, I get the dialog, "You've inserted a blank DVD..." and I click ignore; then the disk does not mount on the desk top. I also got a dialog about avoiding this by going to preferences and setting it to eject discs when Retrospect quits. (I left that unchecked for now.)

 

So I wondered what was different in Tiger. I went to that hard drive and discovered that retrospectcd.fs is a folder which contains a bunch of files plus a plug-in named retrospectcdfs.kext. Why did it behave that way with the plug-in in the folder? At some point, something must have changed.

 

(I didn't know about retrospectcd.fs until you mentioned it - if I had known that was there, I would have copied the folder over to Leopard when I set this all up. But maybe that would not have worked???)

 

So for now, I'm going to see what Respect does tonight: autolaunch is enabled; I quit Retrospect; and the disk is not mounted on the desktop. If it works under those conditions, then that's a breakthrough.

 

Thanks, Ken

 

 

 

[CallMeDave]

Why not just remove retrospectcd.fs temporarily?

 

Because I am not certain that it's the only item involved in the file system support provided by the Retrospect installer.

 

> I didn't know about retrospectcd.fs until you mentioned it

 

Actually I never did, I only mentioned the filesystem support and the possible location of files installed.

 

> if I had known that was there, I would have copied the folder over to Leopard when I set this all up

 

It's entirely possible that the Retrospect Installer script checks for the OS version and configures files accordingly. Perhaps Apple has different requirements for this sort of filesystem support under 10.5 then they did under 10.4; note that Retrospect 6.1.something_or_other was released specifically with Leopard support, so current installers are Leopard savvy.

 

I wouldn't suggest messing around with anything in /System/Library/ if you're not 100% certain about what you are doing. EMC has developers who know this stuff; I certainly do not.

 

Dave

[kn.young]

Dave,

 

Success last night! The log shows that Retrospect immediately found the drive and disk, then began the backup. So, I'll try it again tonight. (The conditions under which it ran last night were the same ones that have resulted in failures before: no restart of the Mac, and Retrospect not left running.)

 

Good points about messing around with stuff in /System/Library/, and about the installer script checking for the OS version. I think that I'll try the custom reinstall of Retrospect over the weekend. Thanks again for your help...

 

Ken

[kn.young]

Dave, I just found several forum threads relating to the File System Plug-in, including one with the same symptoms I've been having, except in Tiger. I also found a reference to this KB article that contains instructions for removing the plug-in with Terminal:

 

http://kb.dantz.com/article.asp?article=5320&p=2

 

These instructions were for Retrospect 5.1. Do you (or does anyone) know if they are still valid for the current version?

 

If they are still valid, the command given is:

 

sudo rm -R /System/Library/Filesystems/retrospectcd.fs

 

I understand that the R in the above means recursive, which will search for and remove all items in the named directory. Previously, /retrospectcd.fs was a directory; on my Mac it's now just an item (the plug-in) within the /Filesystems/ directory. Should the R be eliminated from the command, and if so, how will it read now?

 

Ken

[CallMeDave]

Should the R be eliminated from the command

 

Why not use the installer instead?

 

The filesystem plugin software was introduced with 5.1, and it's quite possible that things have changed from 6.0 to 6.1, from 10.3.9 to 10.4.x to 10.5.x

 

I'd ignore this KB article until it's updated to reflect the version of the program you're using.

 

Dave

[kn.young]

Why not use the installer instead?

 

The filesystem plugin software was introduced with 5.1, and it's quite possible that things have changed from 6.0 to 6.1, from 10.3.9 to 10.4.x to 10.5.x

 

I'd ignore this KB article until it's updated to reflect the version of the program you're using.

 

Dave

 

Dave, looks like removing the plug-in is the answer. I ran the uninstall/install and ran a bunch of tests on unattended backups over the weekend, all of which were successful. And last night it ran successfully on my regular script.

 

So a question remains as to why the plug-in was causing the failure. I also did some reading of KB and Read-Me files, and the short history seems to be that the plug-in first appeared with 5.1, then broke in 6.0 with Tiger, then was fixed in 6.1 with Tiger. That accounts for why disks never mounted for me in Tiger (I was using 6.0). But is it broken again in Leopard? Well, I don't want the disks to mount anyway, life goes on, and I'm going back to work. Thanks, your patient help is greatly appreciated.

 

Ken

 

[rhwalker]

But is it broken again in Leopard?

Let's just say that Apple decided to make the API behavior different in Leopard to make things interesting for the developers. It's a hack, anyway, to make Retrospect backup disks appear to have a filesystem.

[kn.young]

Well, so far that problem has been cleared up, but now it looks like I have another one. The log shows that last night Retrospect auto-launched twice, within a few seconds, and then the second instant failed right away and quit. From the little reading I just did in the forums, looks like this bug has been around for awhile. Looks like no harm, just annoying. I'll watch it for a few days, and if it persists, I'll start a new thread.

 

Ken