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DVD Drive - Pioneer 112D and 115D


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I have been backing up to DVD using a DVR-112D burner for a couple months now. The media I'm using is DVD-R.

 

I've recently installed another DVD drive - a DVR-115D. It seems to me it is the updated version of the DVR-112D which is not available anymore that I found.

 

I can't get retrospect to configure the drive, and wondering if anyone else has been through this. I also decided to try to configure the 112D drive (that was working) again to see what happens with that. It starts doing it's thing, and then hangs while it's establishing the drives writing method.

 

I can't get the drive to show up in the available devices window and am not sure if it is suppose to show up there or not before configuration.

 

I got the 115D with firmware 1.06 and will try updating it to 1.18 after I transfer it to a PC....

 

This is a PIA. Retrospect - please get your shit together soon....

 

I was forced to buy another drive because I wanted another copy of my DVD set. I can't make a copy of any DVD member because retrospect insists on using a foreign file structure.

 

The excuse that it has to to keep DVD's open is bull. Every other burning software doesn't have this problem.

 

Now I can't get another drive working. Outdated piece of crap.

 

This is more of a rant because the people supporting retrospect need to get honest feedback, but if you have anything you can do to help - it s much appreciated.

Edited by Guest
I had more bad things to say
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JBender,

 

First, this is a user-to-user support forum. Your rants here don't accomplish anything except to let you vent your frustration. I'm a user like you are, just like most of the other people who post here.

 

If you want to provide feedback to Retrospect's designers and support staff, well, there are other outlets for that, or you could just vote with your feet and choose another backup product and request a refund. Sometimes Robin Mayoff (head of EMC Retrospect support) will post here, as will some of his underlings, but this is not an official support (or rant) channel.

 

If you truly want some help, details are needed about your configuration. All we know is that you have one DVR-112D drive with unknown firmware connected in some unknown manner (SCSI? ATA? FireWire?) to some unknown computer running some unknown version of (presumably) MacOS, running some unknown version of Retrospect with some unknown Retrospect Driver Update ("RDU") and using DVD-R media, and that you've now added a DVR-115D with firmware 1.06 (or perhaps firmware 1.18 that you were going to "try" updating) connected in some unknown manner (SCSI? ATA? FireWire? on the same interface as the DVR-112D?) to your unknown computer.

 

The output of Apple System Profiler might be helpful to see what the OS sees as your devices as it is booting up.

 

I have a few thoughts on how you might be able to get things working, but I won't participate in a rant, and I need to know some facts first before making appropriate suggestions.

 

Retrospect is not perfect, not by a long shot, but we will try to help you get going. I've been using Retrospect for over 15 years to back up our server and our network of computers (actually, a succession of servers and client computers as they were upgraded), and have been able to get it to do most of what we need.

 

Russ

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I'll be happy to rant where I so choose.

 

It's not directed to you as a user, Russ - I appreciate any help you can give and know full well you're only in it to help out.

 

If you had any say in the design of this software, please take my rant to heart - Russ know's you're reading this.

 

Latvia....too funny.

 

To fill in the gaps:

 

Computer:

Mac Pro w/ 2 gigs of ram

Running OS X 10.4.11 Server

 

Retrospect versions:

6.1.138

Device Access Version: 1.0.107

Driver Update Version 6.1.13.101

 

DVD Drive info:

PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-112D:

 

Firmware Revision: AC08

Interconnect: ATAPI

Burn Support: Yes (Apple Shipped/Supported)

Cache: 2000 KB

Reads DVD: Yes

CD-Write: -R, -RW

DVD-Write: -R, -RW, +R, +RW, +R DL

Burn Underrun Protection CD: Yes

Burn Underrun Protection DVD: Yes

Write Strategies: CD-TAO, CD-SAO, CD-Raw, DVD-DAO

Media: No

 

 

PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-115D:

 

Firmware Revision: 1.06

Interconnect: ATAPI

Burn Support: Yes (Unsupported)

Profile Path: None

Cache: 2000 KB

Reads DVD: Yes

CD-Write: -R, -RW

DVD-Write: -R, -R DL, -RW, +R, +RW, +R DL

Burn Underrun Protection CD: Yes

Burn Underrun Protection DVD: Yes

Write Strategies: CD-TAO, CD-SAO, CD-Raw, DVD-DAO

Media: No

 

Using DVD-R Media successfully for two months on the 112D.

 

 

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Using DVD-R Media successfully for two months on the 112D.

 

Regardless of the drive, DVD-R media is _drastically_ inferior to DVD+R media when used with the mysterious foreign "packet writing" that Retrospect uses.

 

You might want to match up the technology choices better and give it another try.

 

 

Dave

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OK.

 

I have no knowledge of -R Vs +R. I'll give the other type a try. Maybe the new drive can auto configure with it, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

With the drive that HAS been working, I let the auto configure sit there for an hour and it finally failed configuration. So that's an open mystery.

 

Neither drive will auto configure and only one will show up in available devices and work.

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JBender,

 

There are several issues interacting here.

 

First, there was at least one bug/feature introduced in RDU 6.1.12.101 that persists in 6.1.13.101, namely, that -R optical media no longer works after RDU 6.1.11.101. Whether or not -R media support will ever return, who knows.

 

Regardless, RDU 6.1.11.101 supports the DVR-112D and also supports DVD-R media. If you revert to the RDU 6.1.11.101 version, you will regain use of the DVR-112D with DVD-R media. Almost (see second item below). The RDU version history, with downloads, is here:

RDU version history

 

Second, the RDU-provided drivers and parameters always (at least as far as I know) work better than attempts to manually configure a drive. So, step two is to move the .rdi files in /Library/Preferences/Retrospect to your Desktop (to preserve it and so Retrospect can't find it). That file contains your attempts to configure optical devices, and hiding it away will permit use of the default driver and paramters for the DVR-112D.

 

Third, I don't see any support for the DVR-115D in the RDU version history, so you don't have any loss by reverting to RDU 6.1.11.101, and you will gain use of DVD-R media. Support for new optical drives has been slow in coming with Retrospect; perhaps you don't care about Retrospect's use of packet writing (vs. track-at-once, which other burn programs use), but that's the way Retrospect is designed, and the reason is so that the backup set can be appended on optical media. Not all drives support the packet writing commands that Retrospect needs/uses; we only back up to tape, and tape support has been pretty good. There are other issues than -R media non-support with the RDU versions later than 6.1.11.101, which were released after the previous Software QA/QC staff left and after the remaining Macintosh programmer(s) left last year, so I think, for now, this is the best one to use unless you have a specific device that was addressed in one of the later RDUs. But you will have to manually configure the DVR-115D (but not the DVR-112D).

 

If your goal is simply to duplicate optical disks (transfer the backup set from one DVD backup set to another), then you might want to read the DVDs on the 115D (so that it doesn't have to write) and then write on the supported 112D. That's my suggestion. Or, you can see if the DVR-115D can be manually configured to work.

 

Oh, one more thing because you mention that you are running a Mac Pro (Intel architecture). There's an apparent Apple bug in all Universal Binary versions of MacOS (10.4.x and 10.5.x) that will cause Retrospect to crash if it tries to back up ACLs (at least, EMC reports that it's Apple's bug, not Retrospect's bug). Retrospect 6.1.138 and beyond have a preference to disable backup of ACL metadata as a workaround until Apple fixes the bug. I suggest that you don't back up ACL metadata if you want to avoid crashes, which might just produce another rant whereever you might see fit to post such a rant. Here's the KB article, which is wrong when it says that it is an Intel architecture issue (it's an issue with the Universal Binary MacOS on either platform, although you have to take special steps to install the Universal Binary MacOS 10.4.x on PPC) and is also wrong when it indicates that it only happens on certain versions of MacOS 10.4.x:

Retrospect ACL hack

 

Give this a try, report back with results.

 

If you had any say in the design of this software, please take my rant to heart

There is no one left at EMC who had a part of the current Retrospect Mac code base; there are rumors that a new Universal Binary version is in the works, based on the Windows code base. It's not my business decision to make, but I would doubt whether any significant effort is going to be put into fixing issues with the current code base because that effort would detract from the rumored Universal Binary next version, and would be done by people who didn't have a part in the design/development of the large and complex current Retrospect Mac code base. Until then, we all limp along on what we have.

 

Russ

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Thanks for the in depth reply.

 

I really don't care if I use -R or +R. I'll be trying the +R to see if I can get the 115D to configure. Hell, the 112D that does work doesn't configure either, but I guess there is an rdi for that drive so it automatically places it the available devices window - or so I assume.

 

If that does nothing, I can try to revert to an earlier RDU as described. Finally I can put the Drive in a PC to update it's firmware in case that has anything to so with it.

 

I already went through the crashing and ACL thing, but thanks. I was able to google and find the answer - and kept the rant to myself that time...

 

I guess I am upset with ghosts since retrospect is basically being left to rot while some other company who bought the name is trying to make a new version.

 

Russ, do you just follow the company and software closely, or do you have some inside knowledge?

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Russ, do you just follow the company and software closely, or do you have some inside knowledge?

Neither (at least no inside knowledge that longtime readers to the retrospect mailing list don't have). Just a 15 year user (and, before that, about 15 years development experience in computer hardware and software).

 

Russ

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since retrospect is basically being left to rot while some other company who bought the name is trying to make a new version.

 

Bullocks.

 

EMC didn't just buy the name, the bought the entire Dantz Development Corporation, lock stock and developers.

 

At some point the wise rulers of EMC appear to have decided to allow Retrospect to melt away, but then, also apparently, there was a change of heart and Retrospect was given what appears to be a new lease on life.

 

We've seen a completely new, modernized component of the Retrospect family released for Mac OS just this week. That allows for at least _some_ optimism, I think.

 

Dave

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What new is this new release for Mac OS you speak of?

For the Retrospect Mac Client:

EMC announces Retrospect Mac client beta

 

For Retrospect Mac itself:

Retrospect X for Mac

 

There is a forum here for the Retrospect Mac Client Beta:

Retrospect Mac Client Beta forum

 

And there is a, um, lively thread about the alleged Retrospect X for Mac:

Retrospect X for Mac thread

 

My cynicism is because I have heard these things for many years, and there was vigorous insistence a year ago that Mac Retrospect development was ongoing, just weeks before most of the support team, all of the Mac programmers, and the software QA/QC team was let go, and Richard and Larry Zulch, founders of the company and the original programmers, left.

 

Dave seems right that there may have been a reversal of the decision to abandon Retrospect for Mac. We have seen new support people being hired (you can see some of their posts in these forums). The Universal Binary Retrospect Mac client has just been released, and it is rumored that a Universal Binary version of Retrospect is due by the end of this year. Robin Mayoff deserves an award for remaining optimistic. I am cautiously optimistic, and I will start beta testing the client this weekend.

 

Russ

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just weeks before most of the support team, all of the Mac programmers, and the software QA/QC team was let go

 

Yes it is true that a restructuring did take place but this statement is not totally true. Not all the Mac programmers and QA/QC left the company. Today I think we have just as many programmers as before but I haven't counted before/after the restructuring. Many of the people who left have returned in the same job or in higher level Retrospect jobs. More are scheduled to return. From a Tech Support point of view, I have faster and easier access to engineering resources then ever before and my customer issues are reviewed by engineering faster then any time in my history with the company.

Edited by Guest
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  • 2 weeks later...

Getting back to the technical issue at hand, please try the latest RDU, version 6.1.14.101, which was just released. Among other things, it fixes:

 

-an issue where custom configuration may hang

-an issue where DVD-R discs cannot be written to

-an issue where DVD+RW discs cannot be erased

 

Also I believe the Pioneer DVR-115 is not listed as officially supported, but with the latest RDU you can still try to use the drive without using custom configuration. Get rid of any existing rdi files in the Retrospect Preferences folder, make sure you are using the new RDU, and give either drive (112 or 115) a shot.

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