restoring "packages" or "bundles"

[mbizer]

Retrospect 6 doesn't seem to be aware of "packages" or "bundles," which are quite common on MacOS X. For example, to retrieve a file that happens to be a bundle, one must specify the name of the enclosing *folder* rather than just a file name. to make matters worse, Retrospect doesn't seem to restore these files properly: I asked Retrospect to restore all of my Quicken 2004 files (which are now packages), and instead of reconstituting many individual packages, it put the *contents* of all these packages in one package!

 

Has anyone else noticed this?

[twickland]

In my experience, when Retrospect searches for a package, it shows it as an enclosing folder, but when the folder is restored, the Finder shows it correctly as a package.

 

When I have performed a Restore, I searched for the package under Name (File/Folder), not as an Enclosing Folder. I also performed the Restore to restore folder structure, not "Just Files."

[mbizer]

I don't understand how you're doing this. When I search for the package under the Name (File/Folder), it isn't found, and I don't know where you're seeing the option "restore folder structure." Please explain.

[twickland]

You will need to search for "Enclosing Folder contains...." rather than "Enclosing Folder matches..." unless you append the extension ".app".

 

However, a caveat: Since Retrospect sees packages as folders, if you have multiple versions of an application package in your backup set, a retrieved package will contain all of the earlier file variants inside the package. You would then need to go through and select only the latest version of all these files, including the ones in any subfolders, before performing the retore. It will be a lot easier and safer to restore a package by using a Snapshot (i.e., "Restore files from a backup" or "Restore entire disk"), rather than using Search for Files and Folders.

 

To restore folder structure, select any option other than "Retrieve Just Files" in the Destination window.

 

After the matching has been completed and the Restore window appears, go to "Files Chosen." Application packages will show as folders with the name [application].app. Select and highlight what you want to restore.

[mbizer]

You crack me up because if you reread my initial message, what you are explaining now is precisely what I was complaining about: Retrospect doesn't really recognize bundles. FYI, bundles aren't only associated with applications, but also with data files -- Quicken uses bundles, for example. And the fact that "a retrieved package will contain all of the earlier file variants inside the package" is a HUGE problem for someone who wants to look at successive incremental backups of the same file. Restoring a snapshot really doesn't do what I need, alas.

[AmyJ]

Rather then doing a 'search' for the files/folders, why don't you restore from a Snapshot? This way you can select the folder (package) that you want and have it restored exactly the way it was at the time of backup.

[mbizer]

Because I don't necessarily want the bundle from the last backup! Retrospect does incremental backups, doesn't it? So why can't I get every version of a file bundle ever backed up, just as I can for every other file type?

[CallMeDave]

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So why can't I get every version of a file bundle ever backed up, just as I can for every other file type?

 

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You can. You just can't search for them across multiple sessions.

 

Retrospect keeps the Snapshot for each backup session you do; if you want to go back to a previous session's Snapshot, select "Restore files from Backup" and choose the Snapshot you want. Each one is dated for your restoration pleasure.

 

"Search for files and folders" does not use Snapshots, which is why you run the risk of getting multiple changed versions of the same file enclosed in a folder. Those are the incrementally changed files that Retrospect keeps in its Backup Sets

 

Retrospect treats packages as folders because they (gasp!) _are_ folders!

 

They were folders when Apple first introduced them (in 8.5? Or perhaps first in 9.0...). And they're folders now. It's only through the wonders of the Finder that users see them as double clickable single icons. But check them out in Terminal and you'll see that they're directories.

 

Dave

[mbizer]

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Retrospect keeps the Snapshot for each backup session you do

 

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No it doesn't, Dave. It keeps a snapshot for the very first backup, and then it takes another snapshot when I change time zones (because it thinks that all of my files have changed), but in no way does every backup session get counted as a snapshot.

 

Is there something I'm missing?

[mbizer]

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Rather then doing a 'search' for the files/folders, why don't you restore from a Snapshot? This way you can select the folder (package) that you want and have it restored exactly the way it was at the time of backup.

 

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I'd love to, but the package appears as a folder, as "Mark" isn't enabled for the folder itself, but rather only for the contents of the folder (package).

[CallMeDave]

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in no way does every backup session get counted as a snapshot.

 

Is there something I'm missing?

 

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It's hard to know exactly what it is that you're missing. It might have something to do with you thinking that Sessions get "counted as" Snapshots.

 

They're different things.

 

A Session is a Retrospect Execution. Any time it starts and ends a backup, it's an individual Session..

 

A Snapshot is information about the state of the entire Source Volume at the time of the Backup. A Snapshot is information that is created during each Session. It is more inclusive then just the files. For example, files who's permissions have changed (but the other matching attributes are unchanged) will not get copied to the Backup Set during a Session, but the new, current permissions will get noted in the Snapshot for later Restores.

 

While only the most recent Snapshot is stored in the Catalog file, all the other Snapshots are available on the backup media.

 

To see all the Sessions in a Backup Set:

Reports->Contents->"Contents Report" window

Here you can select a Backup Set, and see all the Sessions that it contains.

 

Now, to see all the Snapshots in a Backup Set:

Immediate->Restore->Restore files from a backup->OK->"Restore from backup: Source" window

Here you can select a Backup Set and see the "current" Snapshot.

By clicking on the "Add Snapshot..." button you can select any of the other Sessions in the Catalog, and Retrieve the Snapshot that was saved during that (complete, successful) Backup Session.

 

So in fact, Retrospect keeps a Snapshot for each backup session you do. As long as your preferences are set to the default, and as long as the backup completed successfully.

 

>the package appears as a folder, as "Mark" isn't enabled for the folder itself,

>but rather only for the contents of the folder (package).

 

It's hard to know exactly what you're doing here. But since I figure that if I'm going to be an arrogant know-it-all in print (not at _all_ how I am in real life!) I thought I might as well test what I'm saying at the same time that I'm saying it.

 

Here are the steps I just took to successfully backup and restore an application bundle:

 

Move "Chess.app" to an empty folder.

Define that folder as a subvolume

Create a new File Backup Set

Immediate->Backup: Source (new subvolume) Destination (new Backup Set)

Run the backup.

 

Immediate->Restore->Restore files from a backup

Select new Backup Set and current Snapshot

Click "Subvolume" and select a new, empty folder as the Destination

Click OK

Click "Files Chosen"

Mark the "Chess.app" folder

Run the Restore

 

Inspect the Destination folder; note that "Chess.app" is there, with its proper icon, in bundle form.

 

Unless your View Options (under the Browser menu when the select files window is open) are set to "File & Folder Hierarchy" you'll have a problem selecting all the correct files in a Backup Set with more then just one test bundle.

 

Dave

[mbizer]

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Now, to see all the Snapshots in a Backup Set:

Immediate->Restore->Restore files from a backup->OK->"Restore from backup: Source" window

Here you can select a Backup Set and see the "current" Snapshot.

By clicking on the "Add Snapshot..." button you can select any of the other Sessions in the Catalog, and Retrieve the Snapshot that was saved during that (complete, successful) Backup Session.

 

 

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When I click on "Add Snapshot," I get a long list, I pick one and click "Retrieve" (there are some for which the "Retrieve" button is not activated -- why?), there's a long wait while the "Retrieving snapshots" dialog is displayed, and the I'm taken back to the dialog "Restore from Backup: Source" with the previously selected snapshot added.

 

Then I choose "Retrieve Files and Folders" (or "Retrieve Files" -- does it really make a difference?)

 

I was able to select the file (a Quicken Data file), mark it, and restore it. I still maintain that the bundle should NOT appear as a folder, since the user shouldn't be tampering with its contents. It was meant to appear as a FILE, not a FOLDER.

 

And do you know what? The file/bundle was NOT correctly restored. It appeared as a folder in the Finder, all its components were visible, and its structure was visibly damaged!

 

But isn't that normal? That snapshot that I selected only includes the *changes* in the bundle since the previous session.

 

And if this indeed is the case, then it would appear that I have been right all along: it is impossible to restore incremental changes to a file bundle and have that file bundle appear/function correctly.

 

But you know what. I tried the same thing with the CURRENT snapshot, and again the file bundle was restored as a FOLDER, not as an apparent FILE (as it should have been).

 

Do you have Quicken, or some other application that creates bundles that aren't apps? Perhaps there's a bug in Retrospect here.

 

I haven't been restoring to a new folder as you did in your example, but I don't see why that would matter.

[CallMeDave]

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I was able to select the file (a Quicken Data file), mark it, and restore it. I still maintain that the bundle should NOT appear as a folder, since the user shouldn't be tampering with its contents. It was meant to appear as a FILE, not a FOLDER.

 

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Retrospect's Browser window only has two icons; file and folder. I don't know why you believe it would helpful to remove the user's ability to select the contents of an OS X package, forcing an all-or-nothing restoration option for these complex collections of files.

 

What if, for example, a package that was backed up contained a single file that was needed to be restored. The user would have to restore the entire package, then use the Finder's "Show package contents" command to reveal the desired file, and then delete the unwanted items after salvaging the single desired file.

 

Packages _are_ folders, which the Finder (and yes, some more modern OS X applications such as PathFinder) display as a file. But having the ability to access the contents of a bundle for Restore is not "tampering with its contents."

 

>Then I choose "Retrieve Files and Folders" (or "Retrieve Files" -- does it really make a difference?)

 

Well, uh, yes, it does. Since we agree that Retrospect is handling these packages as folders (whether you aspprove of that or not), telling the program not to restore folders seems like a bad route to your desired result.

 

>Do you have Quicken, or some other application that creates bundles that aren't apps?

 

Apple's "Pages" application creates bundles ("MyFile.pages"). And Retrospect appears to handle them fine, too.

 

Here were my steps:

 

- Create and save a Pages document

- In the Finder, control+click on the document and Reveal package contents to confirm its bundle contains changable files.

- Immediate->Backup the folder containing this document

- Immediate->Restore->Restore files from a backup

- Mark the MyFile.pages folder in the Browser

- Execute the Restore

 

In the Finder, the Pages document shows as a single icon, and opened as expected.

 

- Open the original document and make some changes

- Repeat Backup to same Backup Set

- Reports-Contents->Browse Session

- Note that only the changed files inside the Pages document are contained in this most recent Session

 

- Immediate->Restore->Restore files from a backup

- Mark the MyFile.pages folder in the Browser

- Execute the Restore

 

In the Finder, the Pages document shows as a single icon (in a different folder then the previous). Opening the document shows the changes in place, along with all the other parts from the previous Session(s) (a result of the Snapshot working as expected).

 

If you can provide step-by-step what you're doing, it might become clear what's happening for you.

 

Dave

[mbizer]

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Here were my steps:

 

- Create and save a Pages document

- In the Finder, control+click on the document and Reveal package contents to confirm its bundle contains changable files.

- Immediate->Backup the folder containing this document

- Immediate->Restore->Restore files from a backup

- Mark the MyFile.pages folder in the Browser

- Execute the Restore

 

In the Finder, the Pages document shows as a single icon, and opened as expected.

 

- Open the original document and make some changes

- Repeat Backup to same Backup Set

- Reports-Contents->Browse Session

- Note that only the changed files inside the Pages document are contained in this most recent Session

 

- Immediate->Restore->Restore files from a backup

- Mark the MyFile.pages folder in the Browser

- Execute the Restore

 

In the Finder, the Pages document shows as a single icon (in a different folder then the previous). Opening the document shows the changes in place, along with all the other parts from the previous Session(s) (a result of the Snapshot working as expected).

 

If you can provide step-by-step what you're doing, it might become clear what's happening for you

 

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I pretty much gave you step by step instructions in the last posting. But it seems to me that the problem with your attempt to replicate my issue is that you're dealing with what is basically a new backup set, and you're backing up a single instance of the bundle. I'm dealing with a very large backup set with many instances of the bundle.

 

Perhaps try to backup the file a couple of times, then restore one of them, and see if you're successful?

[mbizer]

In addition, don't put your bundle in a folder before backing it up. Just back up the *file*.

[CallMeDave]

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I pretty much gave you step by step instructions in the last posting

 

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Well, since you're the one who's experiencing expected behavior from the program, it's kinda sorta incumbent upon you to provide as much information as possible to others who might be willing to try and help. Generally, "pretty much" isn't enough contribution for this sort of communication channels.

 

>But it seems to me that the problem with your attempt to replicate my issue is that

>you're dealing with what is basically a new backup set, and you're backing up a single

>instance of the bundle

 

Um, as noted in my steps, after my first successful backup/restore, I modified the Pages document and ran the backup again to the same Backup Set. This resulted in multiple sessions containing multiple version of a bundle that contained multiple versions of files packaged inside. Sure, I could continue the process until I reach "many instances," but for my test at least I didn't encounter a problem when using the program as it's designed to work.

 

>In addition, don't put your bundle in a folder before backing it up.

 

Retrospect Sources can only be Volumes; that's why when you click on the Source button you get the Volumes Selection window. And since a defined subvolume is no different then any other volume, it's not the cause of the difference in observed behavior. It doesn't matter if the file/package is on the root of the logical volume (as mounted on the Macintosh Desktop) or in a subfolder of that volume, or in a deeper folder that's been defined as a subvolume or in a subfolder of _that_ volume.

 

>Just back up the *file*.

 

*What* file?

 

We all recognize that Retrospect handles packages as folders. If Quicken behaves as Pages does (behavior I described and was not contradicted in your subsequent post) then the "document" at issue is an OS X package containing individual files that will change as you use the program. And since Retrospect can match files that already exist on a Backup Set, it only needs to copy those files (inside the package) that have been modified. When it's time to Restore, however, it will Restore all the files necessary to recreate the folder as it looked at the time of the backup. Then the Finder will show it as a single, double-clickable icon.

 

There's information that you're not sharing; information that would reveal what's going wrong in your situation.

 

That's why "pretty much" doesn't result in reproducible steps.

[twickland]

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"Mark" isn't enabled for the folder itself, but rather only for the contents of the folder (package).

 

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Ah, there seems to be a peculiarity in Retrospect where the"Mark" button is not enabled for a folder if the folder is open, displaying contents (arrow pointing down). However, despite this, if you double-click on the folder, it and its contents will be highlighted and marked.

 

Alternatively, if you click on the folder arrow so the folder closes (arrow points sideways), the "Mark" button is enabled.

 

I usually just double-click, so I never noticed this anomaly before.