if i duplicate the system drive to another hd can i swap it in in an emergency?

[teepee]

Hello,

I have been searching around the forums and the FAQS for this and have not really found this information, I have a an extra drive on a raid controller that I would like to use to make an exact duplicate of my system drive , with settings , applications, everything that is on it in case my system drive goes down. I would prefer to just take out the failed system drive and swap in the duplicate, and boot with it. No need to restore or create a bootable CD . No need to boot from a floppy.

So, if I were to use retrospect to duplicate the system drive, with all the system state options would I accomplish this goal? I understand that the program takes snapshots of the system state for restoration, which I find worrisome and may I impede my task.

Also, it seems that you can not update that duplicate copy incrementally, is that correct?

Thank you so much,

Paul Pimsler

[awnews]

In my opinion your best strategy for that would be to look at something like Symantec/Norton Ghost or PowerQuest DriveImage or DriveCopy for making an *exact* bootable copy of your system disk. Although there are avenues (e.g. "Disaster Recovery) for using Retrospect to fully restore a disk this is more work and (IMHO) less reliable. The downside to an image, however, is that it's only current at that moment and I've found that most people won't regularly do image updates (time & effort).

 

I've made several posts on my personal strategy of 1) creating a second bootable disk 2) imaging my main drive to it as an image *file* and 3) using the remaining space for Retrospect backups. This could also be tweaked to include a fully bootable image (e.g. bootable image, rather than an image file, on the first partition) of your main drive to the second drive for immediate swap. Retrospect could still play a role in recovering newer files (data, system) etc. that aren't part of the image.

[pvsurfer]

GoAWest~ Your reply to teepee confuses me quite a bit... If Retrospect's 'Duplicate' operation is not similar to, or as reliable as, a Ghost or DriveImage copy (as you imply), what is Dantz's purpose for including it and 'how does it fit' into an overall backup strategy? ~pv

[awnews]

The "Normal" backup saves things to a semi-compressed Dantz-proprietary file(s). This is the way you make a backup + incremental backups. You need Retrospect to read the backup. The destination location is not made bootable (or non-bootable) via this backup--it's just file data.

 

A "Duplicate" makes a 1-1 copy in normal "Windows" format so you can read the copy using Windows (or DOS or Linux, etc. anything that can read a standard file off a NTFS or FAT drive). But you don't get incremental file copies, just one copy of a file as of the last time you ran the Dup. There is some time savings on subsequent Dups since Retrospect won't waste time copying files that have already been copied. Using the standard format makes the files readable by other means, by other people, and if Retrospect is not around if/when you want to read back the data.

 

Nate can chime in if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that a Duplicate, from one drive to another, will create a *bootable* second drive even to a formatted drive. I don't think the Duplicate function copies boot-sectors and other non-file stuff needed to boot from and run a Windows OS. It may be possible to approximate that by first creating a ghost image to the second disk *or* formatting the second drive as Windows bootable and *then* Duplicating to it to keep files up-to-date but I would be leery of trusting that.

[natew]

Hi

 

A retrospect duplicate can create a bootable second drive. You may have to jump through some hoops to make it work but I've done it on a number of occasions.

 

Specifically you will need to:

Make sure the destination partition is set as active

Make sure to set Retrospect to dupe the registry

use a DOS boot floppy to run FDISK /MBR prior to attempting the reboot.

 

Other than that it should work.

 

Thanks

Nate

[teepee]

GoAWest, Pvsurfer, NateW,

Thanks for the really good insight and instruction. I'm really surpirsed that more people don't provide this functionality plus file syncing in lieu of incremental back up. I have no floppy on this box, so i will have to figure something out in terms of fdisk/mbr, its do able though.

Thank's again,

Paul P

[natew]

Hi

 

If you can dig up a windows 98 install CD I believe you can boot into dos mode from it.

 

Thanks

Nate

[pvsurfer]

Quote:

---

Hi

 

 

 

A retrospect duplicate can create a bootable second drive. You may have to jump through some hoops to make it work but I've done it on a number of occasions.

 

 

 

Specifically you will need to:

 

Make sure the destination partition is set as active

 

Make sure to set Retrospect to dupe the registry

 

use a DOS boot floppy to run FDISK /MBR prior to attempting the reboot.

 

 

 

Other than that it should work.

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Nate

 

---

 

My personal take on all of this is that one should not have to 'jump through hoops' to make a relatively expensive product (Retrospect) perform as well as a much less expensive product (Ghost). I now see very little practical use for Retrospect's Duplicate operation and I now understand GoAWest's backup strategy (also used by churchtown)... However, I don't see why Retrospect's Progressive Backups in concert with a Retrospect Disaster Recovery CD wouldn't constitute a sound 'one-product' approach that could be relied upon for every type of recovery situation, up to and including a complete system restore!

 

 

 

My thanks also go out to GoAWest and Nate for clarifying some of Retrospect's 'black art'.

[awnews]

Two comments I'll make about Retro's DR and why I don't use (or at least rely on) it:

 

1) I've read plenty of horror stories about folks unable to use the DR CD to boot their system--new HW on the system, need to keep it updated, issues with the image (.iso) not fitting on a CD (have to use Windows CD instead, but then no extra driver), drivers that *were* present and *should* have been merged on the DR recovery CD but *weren't* (I've personally experienced this). After reading about and dealing with DR I decided to instead follow Trump's strategy--"you're fired"--and instead created my own DR system (Ghost + Retrospect) that I trust. I should note that others *have* been able to successfully use DR to recover and restore a system.

 

2) It doesn't allow a "boot and restore" recovery. After you boot from the DR CD you have to go thru a process of formatting and installing an OS and then run try to do the actual restore to an active system. My "system", once I boot from my backup harddrive, is two-step plug & play--restore image (may have to replace drive first if that's bad, but that's true either way), restore Retrospect backup. And I've recovered systems using only the later if the problem is just recovered system files. Either way I'm off doing something else while the system is being restored fully without manual effort.

[pvsurfer]

Well from what I reading here (and throughout this forum), it seems my belief that we could count *soley* on Retrospect for recovery of any nature/magnitude was wishful thinking!

 

 

 

Tell me GoAWest, what version of Ghost are you using, and are you using it from within Windows or from a DOS-bootable floppy?

 

 

 

Also, if you wouldn't mind sharing your total backup workflow (Ghost & Retrospect), I'd really appreciate it... I know you said you create a 2nd bootable disk, then Ghost your main drive to it as an image file and use the remaining space for Retrospect backups; but I'm still wondering if you...

 

 

 

... have to partition your main boot drive (to accomodate a Ghost image of the OS)?

 

... partition that 2nd drive (one for the Ghost image and another for the Retrospect backups)?

 

... backup all files with Retrospect, and how often?

 

... Ghost before or after doing a Retrospect backup, and how often?

 

 

 

Thanks, pv

[gbw_on_wheels]

Hi, thought I'd add my two cents worth. I use Retrospect for my primary backup to DVD, and HDD, everytime I have tried to use the disaster recovery, I get error messages about missing some operating system files, and have given up long ago. My disaster recovery involves using Norton Ghost 2003 to clone my "C" drive onto a spare drive, and then set it on a shelf in a safe spot. I do my regular backups to DVD and HDD, but in case of disaster, all I have to do is yank the "c" drive, pop in the spare (cloned and bootable) drive in, I have all my software, os, retrospect, etc, installed on that spare drive. Then all I have to do is boot from the new (spare) "c" drive, open retrospect, tell it to restore the "c" drive from the most recent backup on my "E" or the external USB "F" drive or from DVD. Then Retrospect promptly gets me right where I was before disaster hit, just as fast as the drives can copy the data. My current "C" drive is a 60gig, and my spare is the same size, my backup "E & F" are 80 gigs, and of course DVD is unlimited. I beleive my setup is close to fool proof, provided I keep the backup sets current, and at least one of them in a safe, seperate place. HDD prices are so cheap lately, it's a great way to go. My most recent HDD purchase was from office max, snagged a Western Dig 80 gig for only $20 after the rebate checks came in. Lots of bang for the buck!

 

In fact, to go this route, you don't even have to have Ghost, most retail HDD packages come with either floppy or cd with formatting and cloning capability provided. I did the last one that way! Usually that works only with the drive it came with, but it worked.

 

Going this route, at least with Windows XP, I might have to "reactivate" because of the new "c" drive, but I think you have 30 days anyways, and it's easy!

 

Hope this helps.

[awnews]

> Tell me GoAWest, what version of Ghost are you using, and are you using it from within Windows or from a DOS-bootable floppy?

 

I've used a number of different versions of Ghost (e.g. lately 2002, 2003. Haven't tried 2004) and I've tried DriveImage. On the whole I prefer Ghost. Regardless of whether you run the "Windows" or "DOS" version the actual ghosting happens under DOS after Ghost reboots your PC (only way to back up all of Windows to deal with otherwise in-use files). You do want to be able to run Ghost (from an installed copy on your second bootable drive, from a CD) from another place if needed.

 

 

> Also, if you wouldn't mind sharing your total backup workflow (Ghost & Retrospect),

> I'd really appreciate it... I know you said you create a 2nd bootable disk, then Ghost

> your main drive to it as an image file and use the

> remaining space for Retrospect backups; but I'm still wondering if you...

 

I don't "create a 2nd bootable disk" (e.g. a partition on my main drive), I *use" a second bootable disk, i.e. another harddrive. Hardrives fail, and you may not be able to boot from the second partitions on the main drive (esp. if it's died). PCs fail, get stolen, etc. too, so having additional backups, at *least* of your data, far, far away is also a good idea.

 

 

> ... have to partition your main boot drive (to accommodate a Ghost image of the OS)?

 

Until now I've only created one big partition for my main C: drive that holds everything (OS, apps, data). I tend to image the drive when it's new, so it usually only has the OS and a "base" set of apps. And I don't tend to keep the image up-to-date, assuming that I can first reimage the drive (bootable, reactitvated XP, base apps) and then use Retrospect (running from the second drive) to restore all the files (OS, apps, data) to the state of my most recent backup. I think going forward I'll modify that to partition the first drive into {[OS & apps]}, [data] *or* {[OS], [apps], [data]} to make it easier (and smaller) to do occasional image updates.

 

BTW, I *do* want to fully backup my apps (in the image *or* in the Retrospect backup). Many years ago when I lost a drive before I "got religion" about *full* backups, I lost no data (was backed up) but it took me about three days to fully restore the drive (install OS, find app disks & SNs and reinstall apps, find and reinstall patches, etc.). In fact I now keep a special directory (*also* backed up) for every app (base, patches, SNs, etc. if they're downloaded) so that I can find and restore them--but hopefully my backup strategy means I won't have to.

 

 

> ... partition that 2nd drive (one for the Ghost image and another for the Retrospect backups)?

 

Since my second drive is not intended to *become* a permanent bootable primary drive, I don't partition it. After I format (NTFS) and install an OS on it (W2K works well--can see NTFS or FAT, no activation nonsense...), I install some base apps (e.g. Ghost, Retrospect, Norton Utilities, Norton AntiVirus, etc.) and then image the main drive to a *file* on the second drive. After I reboot with the main drive, I use the remaining space for Retrospect backups.

 

The reason I don't partition is because I find it wastes space--excess space on a "main" partition but not enough on a backup partition or vice versa. With some effort and risk, you can use PartitionMagic to reorganize partitions as-needed.

 

 

> ... backup all files with Retrospect, and how often?

 

I backup all (except cache files) to the backup drive nightly (easy to local IDE or over a 100M network). And I backup all files to at *least* one other place (to another PC across a network; FTP to off-site [non-Retrospect]) to deal with PC failures (e.g. once had a C: drive die in the middle of a Retrospect backup-->lost C: drive and backup drive but had another backup elsewhere...), fire, theft, and just having redundant backups. My second (or third...) backups may only be done weekly but are recycled less often (e.g. backup daily, recycle monthly; backup weekly, recycle every six months). I could see using some CDs/DVDs for data-only backups but I prefer an automated strategy since it actually gets done...

 

 

> ... Ghost before or after doing a Retrospect backup, and how often?

 

As stated above, I usually Ghost when the system is new and seldom after that. With some better partitioning and with the huge but cheap IDE harddrives (e.g. 250G for $160 -- has changed the nature of my backups), I would think ghosting "occasionally" (every six months?) and keeping a couple of Ghost images would make sense. But Retrospect is my daily "workhorse" for getting daily & multiple incremental backups done automatically while Windows is running.

[pvsurfer]

gbw_on_wheels: Your post is the 3rd or 4th one I've read in this forum that questions the reliability of using a Retrospect's Disaster Recovery CD (and it's quite clear that GoAWest doesn't think much of it either). I can't help but wonder what Dantz's position is on this matter (if they are so inclined, they can always jump into this thread and tell us)!

[pvsurfer]

GoAWest~ Thanks for the information, revelation and education! ~pv

[gbw_on_wheels]

Sorry to sound so negative on DR, I tried several times to create the cd, and then doing a disaster recovery on a spare HDD, I don't remember what OS files were missing, but it happened each try. I know that CD-R's are dirt cheap, but got tired of the time wasted to burn coasters. My other problem was the confusing instructions from Retrospect about creating the DR CD, do this with Roxio, or this with that one, I have Nero 5.5, carefully followed instructions, although some of the instructions didn't match exactly what Nero showed. Still, either during or after installing the "temporary OS" on the new drive, I always get some message about Windows can't run because some files are missing, etc. Finally after snagging a deal where I had the option to have a drive laying around but not immediately needed, my gbw DR system is in place and hopefully will do the job if needed. I miss the system I used to have: 4.3 gig "c" drive, and an external 5 gig HP/Colorado tape backup. I had a disaster or two, and all I had to do was boot from the floppy, click on the one step full system restore, and come back a couple or three hours later, and the system was exactly like it was at the last backup. The capacities are waaaay higher now, but the principle should be the same. Unfortunetly, Windows ME, and now XP would not support the drive or the Colorado software. Had to give it away. Sure worked though! (insert whining noises here)