Less than perfect restore

[ghafer]

For a series of reasons, I had to restore my internal hard drive on my Cube: basically, my OS X system folder. Although the restore was complete, I could never get the restored OS X drive to boot--I simply had the smiling Mac and the kalidescope bouncing ball for an hour. I had to reinstall everything (and am still reinstalling!) What went wrong?

 

 

 

-- Gary

[jwarthman]

Gary,

 

How did you run Retrospect to restore your OS X boot drive? Was your cube booted from the drive you attempted to restore, or from some other drive?

 

 

 

As discussed here:

 

 

 

http://www.dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=knowledgebase_article&id=739

 

 

 

...you must first install OS X to the new drive, then restore the "entire disk" from your backup. I believe this might be necessary because Retrospect does not back up *all* files and directories, e.g. /dev.

 

 

 

For more information, take a look here:

 

 

 

http://support.dantz.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Desktopworkgrupx&Number=3300&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

 

 

 

Irena has confirmed that the /dev directory is not backed up by Retrospect, but is created when you restore the entire disk. Dantz has still not acknowledged that other files and/or directories are not backed up by Retrospect.

 

 

 

Your experience seems to support the notion that simply restoring a boot drive from your backup set is not sufficient to have a bootable device.

 

 

 

Enjoy!

 

 

 

-- Jim

[ghafer]

Jim,

 

 

 

Thanks for your post and for the informative threads.

 

 

 

HEY IRENE? DO YOU HEAR ME?

 

 

 

I'm trying to avoid a $69.99 + tax tech support question here, but I cannot restore my crashed disk from Retrospect 5.0 so that it's bootable. In fact, I cannot restore at all under X because Retro 5 locks at . Another night of no sleep!

 

 

 

I want my $200 back.

 

 

 

--Gary

[jwarthman]

Gary,

 

As I mentioned in my earlier thread, if one follows the instructions in the tech note, the restore works just fine.

 

 

 

Essentially, you should take the following steps:

 

 

 

* reinstall OS X

 

* add any OS updates to get OS X to the same version as you were using when you did your backup

 

* install Retrospect

 

* restore "entire disk" from your backup set

 

 

 

This assumes that you had backed up the entire disk, perhaps excluding only cache files.

 

 

 

I did the above, and my TiBook was restored to its earlier state, pretty much as if nothing had happened.

 

 

 

Can you take these steps, or is there something else preventing you from doing the restore according to Dantz's directions?

 

 

 

Enjoy!

 

 

 

-- Jim

[ghafer]

Jim,

 

The first link you gave me concerns Yamaha CD-RW drives, so I skipped to the second you provided.

 

 

 

Following thate discussion, though, I don't understand how doing a "full restore" after installing OS X in its updatable state will give me anything other than what I had: my VXA firewire drive locks on one file (cited above in the first post) while doing a full restore using Retrospect 5. (I tried the same under 9 and had no problem: only the drive would not reboot on restart.)

 

 

 

I am trying to install my previous OS X system from another partition, one running OS X and Retrospect 5. Should I still use "full restore"? Won't that wipe the destination disk clean? Won't I have the same hangup on the file?

 

 

 

Thanks, Jim, for your patience and wisdom.

 

 

 

-- Gary

[jwarthman]

Gary,

 

I don't know what happened to the article link! I double-checked my browser "history", and the URL I posted *used to* have the article I described. It now points to the Yamaha CD-RW article, as you pointed out.

 

 

 

I searched the knowledge base, and found the correct article here:

 

 

 

http://www.dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=knowledgebase_article&id=738&sid=4FqzqTsXeu3c7QpI

 

 

 

Of course, this could change AGAIN. If this URL fails to display the correct article, search for the title "How do I fully restore my OS X computer with Retrospect backups?".

 

 

 

Your situation just isn't very clear to me. After your last post, I gather that you have a hard drive with multiple partitions, and (at least) two of them are bootable. Your "main" boot partition seems to have gotten corrupt, and you're trying to restore that partition by booting OS X from another partition. Is that right?

 

 

 

I believe that doing a restore of the "entire disk" refers to just a partition - but to be sure you should get confirmation from Dantz.

 

 

 

If your backup contains some corrupt file then yes, when you restore from that backup you will still have the corrupt file. :-) perhaps you have an earlier backup session with a non-corrupt version of the file?

 

 

 

Good Luck!

 

 

 

-- Jim

[ghafer]

Jim,

 

I tried to give you the short version of what I did, but obviously, that was incomplete. Sorry. Let me give you the full story.

 

 

 

I originally had my Cube partioned into three, under OS 9.2. When I installed X, I installed it in one of the partitions that was unused. It worked fine. Over time, and learning OS X, I found that partition became so full from files being dropped into the library folder from software installers that I had to do a repartitioning--this time into 2--which I labeled OS X partition and 9.2 partition.

 

 

 

However, I found I could not restore the OS X partition using Retrospect 5 via OS 9 because, even though all the files were restored, the OS X parition would not boot. I couldn't use another emergency disk because I'm using a VXA-1 tape drive and, under OS 9, I need an extention in the system folder, which I cannot do because of the locked CD.

 

 

 

I tried installing the OS X system onto the 9.2 partition, which worked, but when I used Retrospect 5.0, the drive kept hanging up on the file. I've tried a few other things since then, but before I try anything else I'll review the link. I still don't see how I'm going to do any system restore since I cannot have a bootable drive outside of the Cube's internal drive.

 

 

 

-- Gary

[jwarthman]

Gary,

 

Thanks for filling in the details - it helps understand where you're having trouble.

 

 

 

Irene contends that Retrospect can restore an OS X drive/partition without first installing OS X to that drive/partition.

 

 

 

I'm not convinced.

 

 

 

Try following the instructions in the Knowledge Base article mentioned above, and see if that works.

 

 

 

What you're doing is getting the partition to boot correctly with a fresh OS X install, then using Retrospect to replace (most of?) that install by the contents of the backup set.

 

 

 

In that scenario, I think it's okay to be booted under either OS 9 or OS X for the restore, because you have "prepared" the target partition by installing OS X first. Retrospect 5 will recognize the target as an OS X system, and will (hopefully) do the right things.

 

 

 

Keep us posted!

 

 

 

-- Jim

[CallMeDave]

ghafer notes:

 

 

>In fact, I cannot restore at all under X because Retro 5 locks at . Another night of no sleep!

 

 

 

Your text seems to say that you have a file who's name is "."

 

 

 

If this is true, then it's no wonder things are gong wonky. Unix uses the file name "." to specify a particular thing, and it's not an actual document!

 

 

 

Before doing the restore, View Files and de-select the offending file; then let Retrospect continue and see if that works without errors.

 

 

>I am trying to install my previous OS X system from another partition, one running OS X

 

>and Retrospect 5. Should I still use "full restore"? Won't that wipe the destination disk clean?

 

 

 

This is Retrospect 101, and it's more confusing then it needs to be.

 

 

 

There are two "Restore Entire" modes in Retrospect. Restore Entire Disk (which really, really should be named "Restore Entire Volume") and Replace Corresponding Files.

 

 

 

-Restore Entire Disk does just that; it makes the destination volume look just like the snapshot contained in the Backup Set. Any files that are on the destination volume but are not in the Backup Set are deleted (so that they look identical).

 

-Restore Corresponding will put all of the files from the Backup Set on the Destination Volume, but it won't delete any files anywhere.

 

 

 

BOTH of these methods match the files, so that if files on the Destination Volume are the same as files in the Backup set, nothing is copied (why bother, if they're the same?).

 

 

 

If you do a Live Restore (where you install a fresh version of OS X, then install Retrospect, then restore Entire from a catalog that you have given yourself access to) then most of the system files for the OS will match, and won't need to be copied again.

 

 

 

But I'm troubled by your phrase "install my previous OS X system."

 

 

 

Just what exactly did you back up in the first place? Is the Snapshot you're using for your restore the Snapshot of your entire boot drive? If the answer to this question is no, then I wouldn't expect an off-line restore to be successful.

 

 

(note: after yet another re-read of the original post, I see the crucial phrase "...basically, my OS X system folder." You cannot just backup the OS X folder named "System" and expect to use this in a new place. OS X has many more items in a standard install then just this folder. Your restore was less then perfect because your backup was less then complete.)

 

 

 

 

>I found I could not restore the OS X partition using Retrospect 5 via OS 9 because, even

 

>though all the files were restored, the OS X parition would not boot.

 

 

 

No, it won't. Everything written about Retrospect under OS X makes clear that you MUST be running OS X on the machine that you're trying to restore. If it's a local restore, Retrospect must be running under OSX; if it's a remote restore, the client machine must be running OSX (although Retrospect can run under OS 9 when it connects to this client).

 

 

 

There is more to OSX then files; the permissions need to be maintained, and OS 9 doesn't know squat about permissions.

 

 

 

jwarthman adds:

 

 

Irene contends that Retrospect can restore an OS X drive/partition

 

without first installing OS X to that drive/partition.

 

 

 

I'm not convinced.

 

 

 

... I think it's okay to be booted under either OS 9 or OS X for the

 

restore, because you have "prepared" the target partition by

 

installing OS X first. Retrospect 5 will recognize the target as an

 

OS X system, and will (hopefully) do the right things.

 

 

 

 

 

No, it's not OK to be booted under OS 9. See above. You _must_ be running OS X on any machine onto which you are writing OS X files. It's the only way to transfer not only the files, but the i-node (permission) information each and every OS X file stores.

 

 

 

Running Restospect while booted under OS X from one partition will indeed allow you to Restore Entire to another volume. Be sure that the Destination Volume does not have the Finder's "Ignore Permissions" option selected, and there seems to be some problem doing this to external FireWire drives (which Apple has never claimed to support for booting OSX, even though it usually works fine when OSX is installed from an installer CD).

 

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ghafer]

For some reason, the name of the file did not appear in my post so I'll skip the quotations; it is info.plist. No matter what I do--booting under X included--Retrospect stops restoring at info.plast. I followed the knowledgbase entry on doing a full restore under OS X to the letter: reinstalling the System, reinstalling Retrospect, doing the full restore, etc. The restore always hangs up at info.plast.

 

 

 

Three days now to get my data back.

 

 

 

--Gary

[ghafer]

I give up. The weekend's over and I cannot make a bootable OS X disk from my restore. I 'm now, for the seventh time, reinstalling System OS X and all the apps from scratch. All the customizations will be gone, of course, but I don't see I have any option.

 

 

 

This problem is NOT my fault.

 

 

 

--Gary

[CallMeDave]

My system shows scores of "info.plist" files, nested inside many frameworks folders.

 

 

 

Perhaps it would help troubleshoot yours if you found the complete path to the particular file that fails for you? I'm not sure exactly what steps you're taking that tells you this is the name of the offending file (so I can't recommend a method to find which file it might be), but if you can get us this info it might help.

 

 

 

Dave

[ghafer]

Dave,

 

I wouldn't know which "info.plist" file is hanging up the restore, only that this is th ename of the file, since it appears in the script window when it's running.

 

 

 

When the drive "hangs up," I have complete control of my Mac, including pausing and stopping the Retrospect script. I never receive a log error either.

 

 

 

I have a buddy experiencing the same problem with his VXA tape slot-loader; he has hang ups on info.plist during restore.

 

 

 

I gave up and am reinstalling all my apps; I have a preliminary system running until I have more time to do further installs. I'm planning on restoring my documents as "folder and files" tomorrow.

 

 

 

This is most disappointing, to say the least. I have a job this week that I have to perform in OS X and I'm worried (with good cause) that I do not have a reliable backup.

 

 

 

-- Gary

[CallMeDave]

Gary,

 

 

 

Earlier I noted that your post implied that your _backup_ was not complete.

 

 

 

Was this the case?

 

 

 

In OSX, if you don't backup the entire drive, you're not going to be able to restore an entire bootable drive. OSX uses symlinks along with a full constellation of directories to boot; the folder named "System" is not the same as the System Folder in OS 9.

 

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ghafer]

No, Dave, the backup was complete; it's just the restore that never was completed.

 

 

 

Since Retrospect 5 under OS X must reside on the drive that the user is restoring--something unnecssary (impossible?) in OS 9--if the drive hangs up or the restore is incomplete, a user must reinstall all the system software again to the state it was at the time of backup, not an easy nor timely task. (See "How do I fully restore my OS X computer with Retrospect backup" in the Support and Hardware section). After a half-dozen tries, I gave up.

 

 

 

Now, in addition, I find I cannot backup under OS X, for some inexplicable reason, even with a virgin OS X system and nothing else residing on the drive. The backup hangs on one "info.plist" file, as noted previously.

 

 

 

If anyone knows of a firmware upgrade for the Ecrix VXA-1 firewire, let me know; a rep from Dantz told me that one was available but it's not on their web page and, after 40 minutes on hold with Ecrix only to leave a voice message, I still don't know. I'm now in the process a very long recatalog in OS 9 after my rueful awakening with Retrospect 5 in OS X.

 

 

 

-- Gary

[CallMeDave]

Gary,

 

 

 

Now I'm quite confused.

 

 

 

Your original post that started this thread on 04/06/02 noted:

 

 

 

For a series of reasons, I had to restore my internal hard drive on my Cube: basically, my OS X system folder.

 

 

 

From this information, you imply that you were working with only a subset of the data necessary to restore a bootable OS X disk.

 

 

 

In a response, I asked for confirmation that your Source for your backup was your entire hard drive, and not a subfolder defined as a volume. I wanted to know for sure that your Backup Set contained all the data necessary to restore a working OS X boot volume. That confirmation was never given, so I continue to guess at what you are working with.

 

 

 

In the restore that prompted you to begin this thread, what did you use as a Snapshot? Did you manually select only the folder named "System," or did you allow all of the files (and symbolic links, and hard links) to be included in the restore (again, I'm asking these questions based on the sentence quoted above)?

 

 

 

Then, on 04/07/02 you wrote:

 

cannot restore my crashed disk from Retrospect 5.0 so that it's bootable. In fact, I cannot restore at all under X because Retro 5 locks at . (where "." was intended to display as "info.plist")

 

 

 

And later that day, you repeat:

 

...my VXA firewire drive locks on one file (cited above in the first post) while doing a full restore using Retrospect 5

 

 

 

But now, your most recent post says:

 

I cannot backup under OS X, for some inexplicable reason, even with a virgin OS X system and nothing else residing on the drive. The backup hangs on one "info.plist" file, as noted previously.

 

 

 

Has something changed? Did your original backup complete, but now it won't, and it hangs on the same file as when restoring? And this backup is being done on a freshly erased, freshly OSX installed volume?

 

 

 

Is the backup that's failing being performed to a new Backup Set? Or are you attempting a Normal backup using your existing tape(s)?

 

 

 

If a fresh install of OSX fails to a fresh Backup Set, I would certanily be looking at the device (including the bus; the FireWire bridge used in that device might indeed need to be updated).

 

 

 

Also, you write in the same message:

 

Retrospect 5 under OS X must reside on the drive that the user is restoring...

 

 

 

This is just not true. The Retrospect application package can live on any local volume and be run from there.

 

 

 

It is only when doing a Live Restore, where you pull the data onto the boot volume while it's running the computer, that the user might need to install OS X before proceeding.

 

 

 

But if you have two OSX boot volumes, you can run the computer from Volume A_X and restore data onto Volume B_X. Of course, this will ONLY work if you originally backed up an entire hard drive, which begs the question yet again, what was your Source for your backup?

 

 

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

[ghafer]

Dave,

 

The whole business is confusing, made even more so because I can only report what happened, not why it happened.

 

 

 

First, I tried to restore my original OS X boot volume partition ("Cube 1") which only contains my OS X System folder and a few applications--one or two. I used the "snapshot" to attempt a restore. It did not work; the "restore entire disk" failed when reaching an info.plist file. After several manual system reinstallations and updates using the "software update," I tried a full restore--a "snapshot"--to find the same ailment: the drive stalls on info.plist.

 

 

 

Second, I gave up cpmpletely on ever reaching a restore. Instead, I reinstalled the OS X system software manually again. When I then tried to use Retrospect 5 to make a backup of this new "virgin" system OS, it hung up after it just began copying. I rebooted, tried to backup again, only to find the catalog is out of sync. When I tried to update the catalog file, after it finished, the script used for backing up reported that the catalog file was not available. As a result, I attempted a complete recatalog of two VXA tapes; I never got that far, however. After the first tape, which Retrospect 5 took 12 hours to recatalog, I received "header' errors and so no recatalog.

 

 

 

I really don't believe there's a firewire bridge issue; Dantz tech support told me I didn't have the latest firmware until I called Ecrix to confirm that I, indeed, had not only the latest firmware, but the only firmware update since November of last year!

 

 

 

That's as clear, in my limited understanding, I can make the whole issue. No, perhaps this is the clearest: I'm done with it. I've used Retrospect since version 3 with no problems in terminology or usage; I recommended it to others. Obviously, those days are over. If God blitzes my data, I am no worse off than if I backed it up with Retrospect 5.

 

 

 

-- Gary

[CallMeDave]

Gary,

 

 

 

While I'm sorry that you're having problems, you continue to hold back information as well as express misunderstanding of how OS X works.

 

 

 

When you write:

 

First, I tried to restore my original OS X boot volume partition ("Cube 1") which only contains my OS X System folder and a few applications--one or two.

 

 

 

An OS X boot volume contains much more then just a "System folder." Not only are there more visible folders then just the one, there are other invisible folders. And invisible files. Items that are _required_ for OS X to boot.

 

 

 

An original OS X install will have more then a few applications. It always comes with iTunes, Explorer, Mail, etc etc etc. Did you not back these up? Did you delete or move them to another location? Apple is quite specific in not supporting moving or renaming system created folders in OSX.

 

 

 

Gary, what was the SOURCE that you used for your backup? If your volume name (as seen in the Finder) is "Cube 1" was that the source?

 

 

 

Gary, why would there be only one or two applications on your OSX boot volume? What happened to /Library? Did you know that other directories on the root level of an OS X boot volume include /sbin, /bin, /private?

 

 

 

So much of your experience seems to be a combination of user error and hardware error. I can't be sure of the former (since you haven't answered the basic questions regarding how you're using the program) and I can't be sure of the latter (because even though you've received conflicting information regarding specific firmware information of your drive, you don't bother to include that information here where more people then just one tech from each company might see it).

 

 

 

I think you either:

 

A- mucked up your osx install

 

B- mucked up your Retrospect backup

 

C- mucked up your Retrospect restore

 

D- have a tape device that isn't happy under OSX

 

E- some combination of the above