Newbie Help w/Full Restore Preperation

[Slash11]

I am the proud owner of Dantz Retrospect Pro 6.5 Upgraded from Retrospect Express that was included with my Maxtor Personal Storage 5000DV. I am looking to do simple manual backups of my IBM Thinkpad T30 to the 5000 and would like to know what is the easiest way to prepare for a full restore requirement. My laptop is healthy at the preset time.

 

What is the differences between "Duplicate" and "Backup?"

 

Which is easiest to restore in case of catastrophic failure?

 

How do I create a bootable restore CD?

 

Learning curve concerning this software is rather high.....I must admit. It is definitely NOT "one touch" which is one of the reasons I purchased the hard drive/included software. I am looking for the simplest and most efficient path to fully restoring my laptop in case of catastrophic failure.

 

I would really appreciate any and all assistance.

 

Thanks In Advance,

Karl

[kaikow]

I have the 5000 LE, the One Touch button is not useful and it is not supported under the full Retrospect.

 

Dantz has some useful tutorials at their web site that should help you, and the User's Guide is available as a PDF file, tho I also purchased a printed copy.

 

The documentation does leave something to be desired, but the tutorials do help.

 

So far, software works fine with 5000 LE under Win 2000.

[natew]

Hi

 

The tutorials are going to be the most helpful for you:

http://www.dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=support_by_product&ACTION=SUPPORT_BY_PRODUCT&id=28&link_type=tutorials

 

Duplicate copies files from one place to another. Just like if you did a copy of a file in windows.

 

Backup stores all of your files in a backup "container" file/s. To access the files you backed up you have to restore them.

 

Nate

[Slash11]

Maybe I should clarify. I seem to need help with full backup requirmeents. I am not a new computer user but merely new trying to successfully backup in the case that I need to fully restore. I have easily installed the software, I have created a backup set and I have created a restore CD by burning the *.iso to a CD.

 

What I need help with is terminology and any inputs to make a restore painless in case I ever need it.

 

Here are a few questions.

 

1) What does the restore CD do and what does it encompass? I take it that it will include minimal files to verify and load the operating system. It should then use a "backup set" to fully restore all other programs, settings etc. Is this true?

 

2) When do I need to burn a new restore CD, if ever?

 

3) Does the restore CD use a Backup Set to fully restore the computer?

 

4) Is an "image" a backup set?

 

I simply need help in connecting the dots. Thanks to anyone that assists. I think I'll review the user's guide but I am hearing that it leaves something to be desired. All I want to do is be proactive and accomplish all that is required in case I ever have to do a full restore.

 

Thanks In Advance,

Karl

[natew]

Hi

 

Now I see what you are after:

 

The deal is Retrospect needs a working windows environment to run. The DR cd installs a very basic windows environment on your computer so you can start retrospect and restore your files from your backup. The DR cd itself contains none of your personal data.

 

Creating the DR image and buring it to CD is required to make te CD bootable. Your CD burning software will have more info on that.

 

You really don't need to make another CD but doing so may be a bit more convinient during the restore. Your DR cd includes the catalog (index) from your most recent backup. If you do additional backups that catalog will be out of date. as a result you will have to update the catalog before you do the restore.

 

Nate

[kaikow]

Some clarifications:

 

1. I've asked the question before about when it was necessary to create a new DR CD. The answer from Dantz was that this should be done whem you have a configuration change, e.g, change number of logical drives, install RDUs or install a new version of Retrospect.

 

I'd like to see Dantz specificaly create a KB article about when to update a DR CD.

 

2. When using the DR CD, a temporary OS is installed.

THis FIRST temporary OS may not load drivers for ALL your devices, even tho the drivers are on th eDR CD-ROM. For example, the FIRST temporary OS does not install the drivers for my USB card. I've not tried with the USB drive connected to the mobo instead of the USB card.

 

You can use F6 to install additional drivers during the install of the FIRST temporary OS, but I was offereed a choice of installing drivers ONLY from floppies, so I could not install the USB drivers.

 

When you exit/cancel the install of the FIRST temporary OS, the next reboot will build a more complete TEMPORARY OS. THen you should be able to Restore your backup set. As I recall, using F6 during the build of the 2nd temporary OS does allow CD-ROM to be used to install drivers. In my case, since the USB drivers are already on the DR CD, I dod not have to use the Adaptec CD-ROM, just use the DR CD.

 

Dantz should change Retrospect so that USB drivers are installed with the FIRST temporary OS.

 

 

Quote:

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natew said:

Hi

 

Now I see what you are after:

 

The deal is Retrospect needs a working windows environment to run. The DR cd installs a very basic windows environment on your computer so you can start retrospect and restore your files from your backup. The DR cd itself contains none of your personal data.

 

Creating the DR image and buring it to CD is required to make te CD bootable. Your CD burning software will have more info on that.

 

You really don't need to make another CD but doing so may be a bit more convinient during the restore. Your DR cd includes the catalog (index) from your most recent backup. If you do additional backups that catalog will be out of date. as a result you will have to update the catalog before you do the restore.

 

Nate

 

---

[Slash11]

Nate and Howard,

 

Thanks for the reply....You have somewhat clarrified the process. Just a few more questions.

 

1) Nate, you mentioned that the DR CD stores the catalog (index) from it's most recent backup. Is that the same as the backup sets that are created? Also, if this catalog index is not current, can it be loaded during the first or second temp OS install upon a restoration attempt?

 

2) Since I have not accomplished a full restore, as of yet since my laptop is quite healthy,....is there a way that I can test a full restore attempt and then backout before the process is complete to TEST my ability to do so? If so, how, and when should I back out?

 

This is all in preperation that I should ever have to accomplish a full restore. I would like to be prepared and I think this is the forum to learn how.

 

Thanks to All,

Raptor

[kaikow]

You can back out before actually restoring anything.

 

Back out after Retrospect starts and you see that you can access the backup media and your hard drives.

 

Or, if have unused logical drives, you can restore to an otherwise empty/uneeded logical drive and see what gets restored.

 

However, you then need to delete the temporary OS, it's on a drive you selected.

And restore boot.ini to its state before the DR. You should have backup copies of yor boot.in, I keep them on ZIP and CD-RW, as well as hard drive.

 

As I recall, the DR allows you to choose a back up set, but my aging memory ain't sure.

[natew]

Howard,

 

You are right on the money - You can select other backup sets or rebuild your catalog after rebooting from the DR CD

 

Nate

[Slash11]

Retrospect 6.5 really works!! I did a full restore after installing a problem program and it fully restored my laptop to it's past condition!!

 

I have one other issue; I have two backup sets and when I try to backup to a backup set that I have already established, Retrospect scans, then compares and then seems to hang at the activity monitor window. Immediate backup states "preparing to execute." At the bottom of the window "one execution" bar is scrolling but there is no other backup activity; ie, time, files etc. I have waited for one hour and nothing happens. Then I force a shutdown.

 

Any ideas? I should not have to accomplish full backup set backup when I want to to a Progressive backup.

 

Thanks, in advance, for any and all replies.

 

Raptor

[kaikow]

Quote:

---

Raptor said:

Retrospect 6.5 really works!! I did a full restore after installing a problem program and it fully restored my laptop to it's past condition!!

 

I have one other issue; I have two backup sets and when I try to backup to a backup set that I have already established, Retrospect scans, then compares and then seems to hang at the activity monitor window. Immediate backup states "preparing to execute." At the bottom of the window "one execution" bar is scrolling but there is no other backup activity; ie, time, files etc. I have waited for one hour and nothing happens. Then I force a shutdown.

 

Any ideas? I should not have to accomplish full backup set backup when I want to to a Progressive backup.

 

Thanks, in advance, for any and all replies.

 

Raptor

 

---

 

If I understand correctly, you are trying to do an Immediate Backup to an extant back up set.

I have not done that for a few months, but it may be easier to create a script for each backup set and then run the appropriate script from, say, the Run menu.

 

My system with about 26GB of files spread over 10 drives does incur an overhead of 15+ minutes on a Normal backup to a disk backup set on a USB external drive. All internal hard driives are SCSI.

 

When you do an Immediate backup to an extant backup set, not sure how that plays with the extant catalog for the backup set.

[elceres]

Raptor, you have asked a question I have had on my mind for a couple of years but didn't ask because of more immediate problems. Does anyone on this thread have an answer for these questions? Do you need a Dantz boot disc if you already have Hewlett Packard's "restore" discs? The one time I recall doing a full restore, I think I used the HP restore discs and then did a complete restore from the Dantz file on an external hard drive. I must admit, it was long ago, and I not sure that's how I did it. Since then I exceeded the 4gb limit and had to switch to using "duplicate." Duplicate actually suits my needs quite well. Now I have Dantz version 6.5, which apparently allows for backup of the registry using Duplicate. What I have not been able to find out is whether one can do a complete restore using Dantz off a Duplicate Volume, i.e., the external hard drive. Doe anyone know the answer to that question? If you can, then I think I would just opt to stick to using Duplicate, and to using a Dantz boot disc only as a last resort. Thanks in advance.

[natew]

Hi

 

As long as the two file systems are the same and you have chosen to duplicate the Registry you can duplicate over the top of your running system drive to restore the system.

 

In some cases you will need to run FDISK /MBR after the duplicate so that the swap file functions properly. Also make sure the partition makeup is the same as it was on the original source disk.

 

BTW - with Retrospect 6.5 you can create a "disk" backup set. It does not have the 4GB limitation you ran into before.

 

Nate

[elceres]

Nate, as is often the case with answers, they raised some more questions. First, when I look at "Restore" I see the ability to restore a backup set using a source snapshot or catalog file. I don't believe these exist in the realm of "Duplicate." I think it is a "volume" or "file." So my question is can you do a full restore from a duplicate file or volume? I have a hunch it might be possible by doing a "browse." But, the opening screens for a restore don't reveal that to me, nor can I find it in the "Help" file or the on-line tutorials. As you might see, this question might have more to do with navigating Retrospect's screens than anything else.

 

Second, you state as "long as the two file systems are the same." Do you mean Operating Systems, e.g., WinMe vs XP? If so, then that's no problem unless you mean NTFS vs 32 bit, which leads to another question. My Media Center is XP-Pro and my other computer is running WinMe. I just bought another external backup drive from LaCie. There directions mention whether I should partition it and whether I should select NTFS or the old 32 bit. If I use this external hard drive strictly for backing up the Media Center, what would you suggest? I think you would suggest NTFS, but I have no idea what to do about partitioning in this sort of circumstance. According to LaCie, if I select NTFS I can't revert to 32 bit. I guess that might mean I couldn't use it to back up the WinMe computer at all, even if there was another partition. But that is a pure guess on my part.

 

Third, this just goes right to your suggestion about making sure the "partition makeup is the same as it was on the original source disk." Taking what I said in the previous paragraph, could you take me through what you mean and how it applies to the situation I outlined above? I am holding off on doing anything with the LaCie external hard drive until I figure out what to do, which is why I was really pleased at your answering my questions. If you could answer this one, I might be able to get on with the formatting of the LaCie and backing up the Media Center.

 

Fourth, you mention I no longer have the 4 gb problem with Retrospect 6.5. That's one of the major reason I upgraded in the first place. However, the "Help" file tells me that, when using backup, the changes are added to a "bucket" and the older files are not replaced but kept in relation to the snapshot. All I desire is a mirror image because I backup using "Duplicate" every single time I shut the computer down which overwhelms backup sets. Again, thanks for your help.

[natew]

Hi

 

You cannot use the "Restore" function with duplicated data. Just run your duplicate in the oposite direction to move the data back to your primary disk.

 

If the drive is only for use on XP use NTFS. I would use Retrospect client to perform a "backup" (not duplicate) of the windows ME computer over the network. Since the XP machine is running the backup it can store the data on an NTFS disk.

 

The partitions on the external drive don't matter. The important thing is that when you go to re-duplicate over your internal hard drive the partitions on the internal drive are the same as when the duplicate was originally performed. For example, your internal drive dies. You re-partition the new replacement drive make sure the partition structure is the same as the old drive.

 

Recycle backups will empty the backup "bucket" every time it is run. That will keep your backups from growing out of control

 

Nate

 

[elceres]

Nate,

I want to thank you for the very clear and invaluable response. To the points you made I would like to add some additional information. I initially backed up the WinMe onto CD-RW discs. It took 8 hours to do. After a few progressive backups the discs would cease to "communicate." Then I would do a recycle, and another 8 hours. After purchasing an external hard drive I found I could do a "duplicate" in about half the time. But what is determinative is the progressive backups to the duplicate could be done in a matter of minutes and so far no "recycles" have been necessary. That is why I prefer duplicates: time and reliability.

You suggest using NTFS and backing the WinMe over the network. When I first got the Dantz 6.5, I installed it on the WinMe computer and installed the client on the XP Pro. Later, after reading the Retrospect help several times, it became clear I should have installed the program on the XP Pro computer and made the WinMe computer the client. So I installed 6.5 on the XP Pro computer but I could not get it to recognize the WinMe computer as a client. The forum suggests that this is a problem that many users have encountered. I now have 6.5 and the client program on both computers, sort of a Mexican standoff. Should I ever get the XP Pro to recognize the WinMe computer and back it up (or duplicate) to NTFS format over the network, could I still restore over the network and back onto the WinMe with its 32 bit format?

Finally, you mention doing a duplicate in the opposite direction as the only way to restore from a duplicate. How would you do this? With Express I think I was able to search for and restore folders from the Duplicate. With 6.5 it seems all I can see or recover is from backups. I can't help but feel I'm missing something because why make a copy if you can't restore anything from it? Of course, one work-around would be to copy and paste folders from the external hard drive onto a newly reinstalled operating system. Another work-around might be to reinstall the old Retrospect 5 express. Again, I want to let you know I really appreciate your help and would fully understand if you throw up your hands in desperation after reading this response.

[natew]

Hi

 

"Backups" to hard disk are going to be _much_ faster than backups to CD. This is true for recycle backups as well.

 

I only suggest using NTFS if you are planning to physically attach the hard drive to the XP machine only.

 

If you intend to use the "duplicate" function as a bootable backup of your windows ME system you must format the hard drive as Fat32. Otherwise you can run into trouble when you try to duplicate back over the source drive in a recovery situation.

 

The reason you cannot see the XP client machine is likely the built in Windows XP firewall. Disabling or modifying it will resolve the problem.

 

With the "backup" function you can restore data back to machines using either Fat32 or NTFS. That is why I suggested it over "duplicate" in your case.

 

This may help with understanding how duplicate and backup work:

 

http://www.dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=kbase&ACTION=KBASE&id=28094

 

Remember duplicate simply makes a copy of one disk to another. It does not compress or change the data in any way. To recover the original drive you just need to duplicate the data back from the duplicate drive.

 

Backup compresses the data requiring a restore operation.

 

Hope that helps

Nate

[elceres]

Nate, I will make this a short question. I am using a router between the two computers. The Guide says I can't use clients if I do this; at least I think that is what it is saying. Nonetheless, it did setup Client on the Win Me with the XP as the client. So far I can't get XP Pro can find no Client on the Win Me. What's worse, from what the Guide says, I can't use the Network alternative unless the registry isn't backed up. Any ideas? It's beginning to feel like Retrospect just isn't going to work for me any more.

 

BTW, I disabled the firewalls from the get-go as the Tutorial advised.

[natew]

Hi

 

With Retrospect professional both machines need to be in the same IP subnet AND the router must forwart multicast packets on port 497. Many routers don't. What type of router is this? How are your IPs setup?

 

Thanks

Nate