Bad data written to qualified DDS drive setups

[nycdude]

It seems that Dantz's take on customer support is one that prevents even a verifiable and reproducable problem from being discussed without incurring fees. Of course, this is why I'm posting my problem in vain for the third time to this forum in hopes that someone from Dantz might decide to chime in on why this "qualified" setup does not work... anywhere... on any DDS-4 drive on a 39160 in OS X. This doesn't seem like a minor problem, nor does it seems like a problem I should have to pay to ask about since I can't get the software that was purchased to work. (ie: thanks for buying a Ford. we are sorry your car is broken down after driving it for one hour. please pay $40 to discuss the problem further with us. we find that too many people run out of gas, and it costs us too much money to pay someone to pick up the phone for user error like this)

 

 

 

Please find below a problem I originally posted in the Preview forum. I have scoured all online help information at the Dantz site, and have seen enough mentions of this problem to lead me to believe that I am not the only person to see this issue with the OS X version of Retrospect.

 

 

 

Sadly, I feel insulted that there is not even a web form or email address I can send this information to. Doesn't anyone at Dantz think that by making my system work, I can then recommend to all my clients that they can safely upgrade their Retrospect software (bringing the $$$ they seem to want so desperately). Gee, even a response to any of my posts on the forum would be encouraging considering I've spent about 3 hours troubleshooting this one so far.

 

 

 

Thanks for enjoying my rant.

 

 

 

- in response to another user's problem:

 

 

 

If you check your Log you'll notice that it's not just bad compare times, but the indication that the information on the tape is useless (see here:)

 

 

 

- 3/31/2002 7:04:37 PM: Copying OSX 733…

 

3/31/2002 7:31:40 PM: Comparing OSX 733…

 

Bad backup set header found (0x69742e66 at 45,829).

 

File “BalancePro”: miscompare at data offset 1,040,217, path: “OSX 733/Applications/BalancePro.app/Contents/MacOS/BalancePro”.

 

File “Timeline Editor”: miscompare at data offset 95,999, path: “OSX 733/Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Plugins/Timeline Editor.shlb/Contents/MacOS/Timeline Editor”.

 

Bad backup set header found (0x21011883 at 58,271).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x038c8e28 at 58,478).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xff1a1428 at 58,514).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xe03bff00 at 58,515).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x6000004e at 58,520).

 

-snip-

 

Bad backup set header found (0x534c0000 at 108,919).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x6e616d65 at 108,922).

 

3/31/2002 7:38:47 PM: Execution stopped by operator.

 

Remaining: 76066 files, 2.6 GB

 

Completed: 671 files, 55.4 MB

 

Performance: 106.6 MB/minute (111.8 copy, 32.2 compare)

 

 

 

My copy time was dogged when the screen saver kicked in, and had seen around 163MB. I'd like to see Retrospect block that kind of activity in the future.

 

 

 

Anyway, the SCSI card you're using isn't qualified. From what I've read taking a Wide 68-pin device down to a 50-pin Interface seems to be the problem. Anyone tried a terminating adapter for this?

 

 

 

I'm not sure what else to try. I've got the current Adaptec 39160 1.1.0 drivers installed, and it is the only device on the chain. It works fine with Retrospect 4.3 in OS 9.2.2. I'm running OS 10.1.3 on a G4/733 with 640MB RAM, an Adaptec 39160 SCSI card and a Sony SDT-11000 DDS-4 drive. The setup is "qualified" by Dantz and there is no mention of this kind of problem anywhere but the Forums.

 

 

 

My experimentation seems to prove that the problem is that the data written to tape is bad. If I write a tape in OS 9, it will verify and restore with expected performance in OS X. If I write a tape in OS X it will appear to write correctly but not verify, and the tape will not restore in OS 9.

 

 

 

Any insight would be appreciated!

 

TC

[Threedrules]

There is nothing more to say. I have the same problems. First a thought its just the compare-part which is not working correct . But then i disabled it, run a backup and restored the data. And waht happend - all the data is corrupt. I think this not okay for a 200$-update. And - of course - we are not able to backup our 40GB of working data.

 

 

 

A soon response would be appreciated!

 

 

 

Hardware: HP Surestore DAT40 (DDS-4), Adaptec 29160

 

Software: Mac OS X Server 1.1.3

[Gandalf465]

Attack of the killer Adaptec Cards.

 

 

 

You are having the same problem I, and many other happy version 4.x users, had. Apprently some of Adaptec's cards (we had the 29160) will not work with Retrospect on OSX. Support claimed that they could not get to every hardware combination during testing and confirmed that there are compatibility issues with some of Adaptects cards. We were not dealing with the 39160 but the errors you are getting are identical to what we had with the 29160.

 

 

 

In short we had to get a different SCSI controller. We are using an ATTO now and are extremely pleased with it. Sorry there is not a "magical" fix.

 

 

 

I am not sure if my experience was unique with Dantz but I did receive FREE support the day after I downloaded my Retrospect 5 Wrokgroup upgrade. I did call the special "direct" support phone number that was set up in reaction to the flood of calls generated by the 5.0 release. I am not sure if that number is still active, though you could give it a try. 925-253-3037

 

 

 

I agree Dantz has sadly dropped the ball on this issue and it's support policies in general are taking an ugly turn.

 

 

 

Regards

[black7]

I have the same problem, and would like someone from Dantz to give us more information. I'm upset

 

because i was not seeing this problem in the preview, and have been using retrospect for years without

 

an issue. Don't let us down Dantz- either tell us you're going to fix this problem (ie work with adaptec

 

if you have to) or tell me that I can get my money back.

[IrenaS]

Further testing with the Adaptec 29160 card has shown that it does not offer consistent reliability when used with Mac OS X. Thus, Dantz is removing this card from our list of SCSI host adapter cards that function reliably with Mac OS X.

 

 

 

Our online documentation has been updated to reflect this incompatibility.

 

 

 

We will continue working towards supporting this card with Retrospect under OS X, but this configuration is currently not supported.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Irena Solomon

 

Dantz Tech Support

[nycdude]

OK!

 

 

 

A reply!

 

 

 

But....

 

 

 

Where did I mention that I had a 29160 card?

 

 

 

Are we going to drop compatibility for the 39160 now too?

[IrenaS]

Other people on this thread mention the 29160 card.

 

 

 

Support for the 39160 is not being dropped at this time.

 

 

 

Thanks

[nycdude]

Oh lord. What kind of bizarre exchange am I having here?

 

 

 

I guess the company line is "we are not dropping the 39160", but why even bother to repsond to my reply if you are not going to address the issue I'm having?

 

 

 

Please someone help me understand why Dantz seems to be dodging my original question. I've even explained that a black & white answer to this would help generate $$$ for Dantz.

 

 

 

I know you have a product that is experiencing growing pains right now, and having written code AND worked in tech support at points in my life I can appreciate the frustration. But for all that is good and right in this world, please address MY issue. And MY issue is that a "qualified" configuration flat out doesn't work.

 

 

 

I'm so very bored with this.

[IrenaS]

I'm sorry; the question in the post I was replying to was "Are we going to drop compatibility for the 39160 now too?"

 

 

 

I understand that you are frustrated. Have you updated to the latest Adaptec drivers?

 

 

 

We have not seen the same kinds of problems with the 39160 card that we have with the 29160 card, which is why we are not dropping support for it. This includes information posted to the forum, tech support calls and tests in our labs.

 

 

 

It's clear that something is not working in your configuration. It's possible that others are seeing the same kinds of problems that you are and not reporting them, or finding that the problems can be solved with other troubleshooting. SCSI in OS X just isn't as smooth as it is in 9, and not only for Retrospect.

 

 

 

If you want to discuss this with Tech Support, give us a call. If the problem is due to a bug, your tech support charges will be refunded to you.

 

 

 

If you are unsatisfied with our support policy, send email to:

 

 

 

customerfeedback@dantz.com

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

Irena

 

 

[IrenaS]

Further testing has shown that the updated Adaptec drivers (v1.1) for the 39160 card cause problems with Retrospect backups. We recommend that you revert to older drivers.

 

 

 

To complete these steps, you must be logged into the Finder as root or use a third party utility that allows you to see, access and delete files owned by the system. Those familiar with the Terminal can su to root and accomplish these steps in the Terminal.

 

 

 

1. Remove version 1.2 by deleting the "Adaptec39160.kext" file from /System/Library/Extensions. Then run the version 1.0.2 installer from the Adaptec web site. It can be found at:

 

 

 

http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/support/drivers_by_product.html?cat=%2fProduct%2fAPD-39160&prodkey=APD-39160

 

 

 

2. Replace "/System/Library/Extensions/Adaptec39160.kext" with the one on the Mac OS X install CD. It is located in the same path on the CD. To navigate to this path, you must close the auto open CD window and reopen the CD to get to the root level.

 

 

 

Thanks, and I hope that this is helpful.

[nycdude]

I removed the previous 39160 driver file and installed the 1.0.2 drivers again. Unfortunately it made no change. Here is the resulting log file.

 

 

 

- 4/5/2002 1:49:40 PM: Copying •• New From Zig •• on Internal Data…

 

4/5/2002 1:52:56 PM: Comparing •• New From Zig •• on Internal Data…

 

Bad backup set header found (0xe995f2ec at 17,158).

 

File “Fonts.sit”: miscompare at data offset 17,554,030, path: “•• New From Zig ••/ OK/Fonts.sit”.

 

Bad backup set header found (0x63dc1ef0 at 20,248).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x4fa7fd75 at 23,542).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x2d80fa14 at 25,006).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xada80724 at 25,007).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x0adca182 at 26,331).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xe18b2f8a at 56,642).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xe3af1142 at 58,472).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xb6a86d35 at 59,144).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x4792c530 at 60,541).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xed0880df at 115,044).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x50055c28 at 224,161).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x30de9250 at 224,637).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x370265db at 225,419).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x71544bbd at 225,420).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xbdecf282 at 248,224).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x9d5b227b at 260,129).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x19724541 at 260,591).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x12121385 at 261,079).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x2b812dc7 at 261,271).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xf0d66b7f at 262,346).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xbc0abbbc at 273,052).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x4f697613 at 274,931).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xea31415e at 286,566).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x7de80d8f at 288,238).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x3c6e8e51 at 289,514).

 

4/5/2002 1:55:05 PM: 27 execution errors.

 

Remaining: 26 files, 282.9 MB

 

Completed: 0 files, zero KB

 

Performance: 63.3 MB/minute (107.4 copy, 0.0 compare)

 

Duration: 00:05:25 (00:00:57 idle/loading/preparing)

 

 

 

Again, testing this tape in OS 9 shows that the data was written as bad. The tape can then be backed up onto in OS 9 and restored in OS X with no issues.

 

 

 

It just seems that this configuration doesn't want to write to tape in OS X.

 

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I have 4 clients with DDS-4 drives and 39160 cards waiting to upgrade, but I'm stalled for now I guess.

 

 

[kevinbrooks]

As much as I wish it were not so, I am experiencing the exact same problems with the exact same hardware configuration. I have a dual 500 G4 running OSX 10.1.3, a PowerDomain 39160 with driver 1.0.2 and a DDS-4 drive. I am getting the exact same error messages in my Retrospect 5.0 log. Here is a small example:

 

Bad backup set header found (0x2540001a at 21,485).

 

Backup set format inconsistency (7 at 21485)

 

Bad backup set header found (0x26447000 at 21,486).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x1c760020 at 21,486).

 

Bad backup set header found (0x248842aa at 21,487).

 

Bad backup set header found (0xff008058 at 21,488).

 

 

 

A question for the Dantz representative: given the problem appears repeatable on different computers by different users, would the next step be to take the PowerDomain 39160 off the compatible hardware list? I'm not angry or overly frustrated (well, just a little), but what I would really appreaciate is an answer yes or no. The reason is that if I have to now go justify the purchase of an Atto ExpressPCI board, I want confirmation that it won't be a waisted $300, given these tight economic times. One other quetion is if Dantz has talked with Adaptec tech support about this issue. An obvious "dumb" question I know, but it would be nice to hear what is happening to address our problems.

 

 

 

Kevin

 

Motorola, Inc.

[nycdude]

I just had one of my clients purchase an ATTO EPCI-DC card and will be installing it on Thursday. I've used that card often, and am HOPING it is the fix. If we (collective users) don't have a specific answer by then, I'll certainly let you know how it goes.

 

 

[BryanHill]

As soon as I came to this thread, it addressed my symtoms exactly, except the "bad header" errors occur on restore. Backups don't report any of these types of errors. I bought the Adaptec 29160 for this application, but now that it has been removed from the list, it's time to return it. I installed a 2930U from another machine and the problems are gone. I have a Overland Data 15 tape library with a Quantum SDLT1 drive, and it really rocks with a LVD160 card, the 2930 is slooow.

[ChuckS]

Hello, all.

 

 

 

What version of firmware is currently installed on the devices themselves, i.e., the tape drives? We have seen firmware revisions have a major impact on compatibility under OS X.

[nycdude]

Looks like it's got version 0110, which is the current version for this drive:

 

 

 

http://sony.storagesupport.com/dds/sdt_11000dwn.htm

 

 

[ChuckS]

OK. I've got two further questions for the 39160/SDT-11000 muddle we find ourselves in:

 

 

 

1) What version of firmware is currently installed on the 39160?

 

 

 

2) Has the ATTO card you mentioned at the one client site brought any relief?

 

 

 

Please note that even if the ATTO card seems to have solved the problem, we at Dantz are still interested in pursuing problems with the 39160. If need be, we will work with Adaptec and Apple to try and resolve this issue.

[nycdude]

ROM version on the 39160 card is 1.2

 

 

 

As I am sure you are aware, when I backed the OS X software driver versions back to 1.0.2 at your recommendation (using 10.1.3) things went very wrong in addition to not working. The machine stopped deep-sleeping, and it would crash regularly with spinning cursors on every app with no keyboard control to force-quit. I've returned to the current drivers since Retro 5 isn't working either way.

 

 

 

My clients ATTO card is MIA thanks to FedEx. If I'm not out of town when it arrives next week, I'll report on my discoveries.

 

 

[ChuckS]

Nycdude and I have been pursuing this off the forum, and it looks like we've come to a resolution. Our lab reproduced this problem in fairly short order, once we gathered the necessary hardware. We had success in two instances:

 

 

 

1) The replacement of the Adaptec card with the ATTO card, as mentioned earlier in the thread, eliminated the error. This, though, is a solution that requires additional expense.

 

 

 

2) We reverted the version of the driver (/System/Library/Extensions/Adaptec39160.kext) to the 1.0.0 version, as found on the original Apple X install CD (in the same path). An su to root was necessary to delete the in situ 1.0.2 driver from Adaptec and to drag the original OEM driver over to the same folder.

 

 

 

Neither nycdude nor our lab could reproduce the error when using the Apple-supplied 1.0.0 driver off the X install CD. A side effect of reverting to the original 39160 was that the backup machine could not be put into a deep sleep with the downgraded driver (this was not tested by Dantz).

 

 

 

The bottom line: Dantz recommends downgrading the driver to version 1.0.0 as found on the X install CD for proper operation of devices with the 39160 under OS 10.x.