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backup up asip server .. please assist.


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i know the offical line is that we should upgrade asip to osx. but at the moment i'd like to just backup my server.

 

OSX 10.1.5 Server with Retrospect 5 connected via 100mbit to cisco 6500

 

ASIP 6.3.3 1.2gb ram R5 Client via 100mbit to cisco 6500

 

Sometimes it backs up a bit, mostly the server crashes in the morning.

 

Last nights log:

 

Recycle backup using $[24]Week1 Thursday Studio$[25] at 27/2/2003 23:00

To backup set $[*!s321,,14,+3]WK1THURSDAYSTUDIO…

27/2/2003 23:00:18: Recycle backup: The backup set was reset

 

- 27/2/2003 23:00:18: Copying $[*!s307,,14,+3]Studio on $[35]Studio$[36]…

27/2/2003 23:00:18: Connected to $[*!s339,,14,+3]Studio

 

<snipped out about 10 error unknown msgs>

 

28/2/2003 9:08:18: Execution stopped by operator. $[3129231618]

Remaining: 71386 files, 66.5 GB

Completed: 4 files, 4435 KB

Performance: 360.1 MB/minute (360.7 copy, 14.4 compare)

Duration: 10:08:00 (06:59:06 idle/loading/preparing)

 

Sooo.. 4mb in 10hours.. is that a new record for the slowest ever possible nework backup.

 

Please advise on how to rectify this issue.

 

 

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Some users of Retrospect have found the following workarounds helpful.

 

1) Try allocating more memory to Retrospect via the get info Window (Mac OS 9 users) in the finder

 

2) Turn off Sherlock Auto Indexing on the server

 

3) Configure Energy Saver (or Retrospect if the backup happens locally) to Restart the server every day following the backup or before the first users arrive in the morning.

 

4) You can try to perform a backup of the server while AppleShare itself is disabled, but this WILL prevent you from copying any AppleShare privileges.

 

5) If you backup is local to the server, try backing up the server as a client.

 

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the backup is from ASIP client to OSX Server. so i cannot ajust the memory.

 

sherlock indexing is off

 

it is not an option to have the server restart everyday, its is need 24hrs a day

 

disabling appleshare requires inervention. i'm not staying at work till 11:30pm every night to do this!

 

the backup is a client.

 

 

also, since this backup server has been installed, this server now crashes every morning without fail.

 

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Quote:

Please advise on how to rectify this issue.

 


 

Retrospect 5.0 never was able to work reliably with ASIP. It's simply not a supported configuration.

 

Retrospect 4.3 worked for most users (we never had a problem). Try to find an old copy of 4.3 and run it on a Mac OS 8 or 9 machine.

 

Dave

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Ah.. but I have an OSX backup server that i'd like to backup 2 x OSX servers and 1 x ASIP server.

 

What you saying is that even though it kinda sometimes works (but also crashes the server) R5 doesn't work with ASIP and as such I can't back it up reliably. So Retrospect 5 Server is not designed for ASIP Server?

 

I don't remeber seeing that anywhere when I paid for the upgrade.....

 

Oh dear...

 

 

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Uh. ASIP is an 'ususpported configuration'???? That's NOT mentioned in the update info I based my purchase of the upgrade of my old Workgroup software and 50 clients! Nor is it mentioned in the manual which came WITH the CD I also ordered.

 

Is this 'unsupported' situation going to be resolved? I've got about 25 GB of data and fifty users who expect their server-stored data to be backed up!

 

-Dave

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have an Appleshare IP server at work that I back up nightly. The best way I have found to do it is by using something called AShare Helper on the ASIP server.

 

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~dbakkers/ashare_helper/index.html

 

Essentially, you use it to turn off ASIP - then, you do your backup, and then ASIP re-starts.

 

I am in a situation that there is NOBODY using our ASIP server overnight, so I disable it before nightly backups start, and re-start just before people come in for the day.

 

But it's worked like a charm for me... Good luck!

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The 'statement' is unacceptable. The LEAST you could do is STRONGLY state in your promotional literature that Version 5 is totally useless for ASIP backups!

 

Unless Dantz wants to pony up the $1000 it would cost to upgrade from ASIP 6 to OS X Server, I have no choice but to abandon Retrospect (after >10 years as a faithful user). There are other solutions out there.

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The statement is totally unacceptable. I, too, updated to Retrospect 5.0 with the impression that it would work as well as my previous version, which had no problems at all. But now, instead of depending on Retrospect to backup just my server, I depend on it to backup EVERY workstation… and it doesn't work.

 

It's about time software companies stop passing the buck and get to work fixing the problem.

 

Considering in that this is the Workgroup and Server software we're discussing, I think Dantz had an obligation to test their product on Appleshare IP and let us know if it works. That's not too much to ask. It's not like we're asking them to test it on some configuration with many third-party extensions. I mean, it's Appleshare for goodness sake.

 

And to suggest that we upgrade to OS X server is ridiculous. To do that, you're looking at over $1,000 in software and — in my case — new hardware. (Apple's nice enough to tell me that my Server 9650/350 does NOT support OSX.)

 

I for one don't buy the excuse that they can't get it to work with Appleshare IP. I'm sure if they really put forth the effort, they could find the problem.

 

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

Vinny

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Quote:

I think Dantz had an obligation to test their product on Appleshare IP and let us know if it works.

 


 

That seems to be exactly what they did, and they released some sort of announcement regarding the incompatibility between Retrospect 5.0 and AppleShare 6.0.

 

I for one don't buy the excuse that they can't get it to work with Appleshare IP. I'm sure if they really put forth the effort, they could find the problem.

 

Perhaps they did put forth the effort and found out that the problem is that Apple's current API's are incompatible with the older Apple API's that are used by AppleShare IP. Just as they said in their announcement.

 

Would you have Dantz fall back on 1998 programming for Retrospect 5.0?

Do you expect Apple to rewrite AppleShare IP?

 

Since neither of these is likely to happen, you can A)use older backup software with your older server software (Retrospet 4.3 worked pretty well for most users, albeit with some glitches that users learned to work around) or B)use new server software with your new backup software (which seems to have some glitches that users are discovering and working around as the new operating sytem matures).

 

Put an ad on Craig's List and see if someone has an old copy of Retrospect 4.3 they'll be willing to sell you (it came with lots of devices back then).

 

Dave

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"That seems to be exactly what they did, and they released some sort of announcement regarding the incompatibility between Retrospect 5.0 and AppleShare 6.0."

 

Yes, they did. But they did it too late. And they had already claimed it was compatible with AppleShare IP. To quote page 162 of the Retrospect users guide:

 

"File Servers

Retrospect is compatible with AppleShare, AppleShare IP. AppleShare Print Server, and Mac OS X server."

 

Oh, really…

 

Apparently they now admit it is not compatible with AppleShare IP. Of course, they admit it after I've purchased the software based on their claim that it was, in fact, compatible with my software.

 

As far as I'm concerned, something has to be done by Dantz to resolve the problem. I understand that it is difficult — nearly impossible — to test software on numerous configurations. But to claim that software is compatible with a specific application, apparently without testing it, is just wrong.

 

It's difficult to defend a company that is basically saying "Whoops, we thought it was compatible, but it actually isn't. And we're not going to do anything about it. Sorry!"

 

Dantz probably won't do anything about it, as there most likely aren't enough Appleshare IP users out there to justify the cost/effort. I'm sure they did some research to figure that out.

 

But that doesn't make it right. And it doesn't explain the false claim — the lie, if you will — that it is compatible with Appleshare IP from the outset. Let's face it. They've sold owners of AppleShare IP a Pinto.

 

Whattaya say?

 

Vinny

 

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Hi,

 

You are correct that the Retrospect User's Guide and Box were printed prior to Dantz releasing our final statement on ASIP, but we have had that statement clearly posted on our website since the middle of 2002 when Retrospect 5.0 was released. We have been very up-front with our support for ASIP by posting a clear statement on our website, in our forum, on Retro-Talk and by notifying all customers who reported to use they had trouble with ASIP.

 

We have also spent a huge amount of time working with Apple to deal with this issue, but Apple has made it clear that Mac OS 9 is a dead product, and they are not going to fix the problem.

 

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Quote:

We have been very up-front with our support for ASIP by posting a clear statement on our website, in our forum, on Retro-Talk and by notifying all customers who reported to use they had trouble with ASIP.

 


 

Oh, yeah? Well how about your product overview on your web site, which was where I checked to make sure the product was compatible?

 

Guess what? When I purchased the product in August, it said it was compatible with ASIP. You know what it says as of April 1, 2002 at 2:23 PM EST?

 

"Retrospect Backup is the #1 choice of millions of useres worldwide. Designed to protect a small network with a single AppleShare IP or Mac OS X Server. Retrospect Workgroup Backup provides 100% reliable backups, expandability and flawless restores that you can trust."

 

It's right here at today!.

 

Thanks for being so upfront. I didn't find the "statement" until I spent hours of trying to figure out if I had some kind of extensions conflict.

 

Now, is it too much to ask if you fix the web site? How 'bout a link to the "statement"?

 

And you still haven't answered my question: Was the product tested on a machine running ASIP prior to its release? Or was the statement a reaction to the complaints?

 

Thanks again,

 

Vinny.

 

PS: I think I, and all ASIP users, deserve our money back and an apology.

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I also purchased 5.0 in August (after checking the Dantz web site) with no idea it wouldn't work with my ASIP 6.3.3 server. I'm just now getting it installed on it's own G4 server and after the first aborted backup students have lost work because their documents are now corrupt. Since my 30 days are up I can't even make a call to tech support unless I pay $70 even though I just now installed it. $500+ down the drain and I don't even get one phone call. If there is a solution out there I'd love to hear it.

 

Excuse me while I go uninstall before it strikes again.

 

 

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As a consultant I'd like to weigh in on this issue.

 

As a victim of the crashing ASIP server running Retro 5, I had a mild suspicion that it was not compatible due to the reworking of the code for X. I understand that these things happen and that old code involved in OS 9 is, in my opinion, best left dead. I also have the opportunity to install and test OS X Server. Unfortunately, this is not a viable opportunity for MANY users who have perfectly legitimate mixed legacy and modern systems.

 

I do, also, COMPLETELY agree that Dantz could have been more active in the media instead of passively posting somewhat hidden, inconsistent and contraditory messages to their Web site. For example, Dantz could have sent around messages to all registered users (I didn't get anything) and/or posted a few items to the Mac news sites in the interest of PR. Even posting something on the main page in prominent letters would have helped. Tylenol's cyanide scare was an excellent example of a proactive "We're sorry" approach, and they didn't even do anything wrong! Don't make users search for the info they need!

 

Mac OS 9 server/backup software is expensive, is generally reliable, and takes a fair bit to set up to one's satisfaction and for this reason it sticks around. But, supporting such a system can become impossibly expensive for software developers tracking multiple, incompatible, and legacy code versions. I'm not entirely pleased about the methods used to inform Retrospect users about this issue. On the other hand, I understand the situation. It COULD have been handled better. It's just this sort of thing that keeps users from upgrading anything, and I get stuck in the middle (or in the middle and on the bottom...ouch!) frown.gif

 

Matthew

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