ZoneAlarm breaks client

[JeffV]

Desktop machine & notebook, both with Win XP SP1, latest NIC drivers, Ethernet, current ZoneAlarm Pro (v3.5.166), same subnet, TCP/IP is the only protocol. WinXP firewall disabled on both.

 

 

 

Desktop runs Retro 6.0, notebook runs Retro 6.0 client.

 

 

 

Additional to Ethernet, notebook has wireless NIC and Firewire NIC. Both enabled, but neither in use at the site where the backup runs. Desktop has only Ethernet.

 

 

 

ZoneAlarm configured to pass Retro packets on both sides.

 

 

 

Client backups fail ~70% of the time with a 530 error. If I do Client/Properties/Refresh in Retro, it also fails with a 530 error ~70% of the time. Happens whether the notebook just restarted or running for weeks, notebook power management or not, with or without BindListener in the registry, whether through switch or crossover cable, and after ZAP & Retro uninstall/reinstall on both machines.

 

 

 

Generally works long enough to get a backup if I terminate ZAP on notebook, usually have to restart Retro Client service after that, too. I can usually restart ZAP after Retro Client starts and get backups for at least a day or so.

 

 

 

If I set ZAP to not load automatically at startup, I don't have any problems with the Retro Client, although I don't ordinarily run it that way so I don't know how repeatable that is.

 

 

 

Also, if I have Retro connectivity and leave the program and the property window open with "Connected" status, the backup will always work.

 

 

 

ZAP on desktop does not seem to interfere.

 

 

 

ZAP support suggests the problem may be load order; ZAP wants to load after all network-related services are running. Makes sense, and consistent with my observations. Windows doesn't offer them a way to load last, though, and they also don't really know if that's the problem or not.

 

 

 

ZAP has nothing in its KB about Retrospect, and vice versa.

 

 

 

At *all* times, notebook is pingable from desktop, and MS networking and Remote Desktop connectivity is normal.

 

 

 

I'd say this looks like a ZAP problem...except that I did not have this problem with ZAP & Retro Desktop 5.6/Client 5.6.

 

 

 

ZAP support didn't have a solution. Can you take a stab at it?

 

 

 

TIA

 

 

 

Jeff Vandervoort

 

JRVsystems

[JeffV]

After all that...I have to amend the problem description with new info. This is the first time I've known this to happen, and it figures it would happen after my last, very long post...

 

 

 

I disabled ZAP's "Load on startup" option and restarted the notebook. After restart, I had Retro connectivity, as demonstrated by Client Properties "Connected" status. I left Retro 6 open with the Client Properties window open and "Connected" as the status until the scheduled backup ran (4 or 5 hours later). Got a 530 error during the unattended notebook backup.

 

 

 

To my way of thinking, ZoneAlarm is no longer a suspect, and my ZAP-related observations in the previous post are irrelevant.

 

 

 

How can I achieve the level of reliability I had with Retro 5.6's backup client in Retro 6.0?

 

 

 

Jeff Vandervoort

 

JRVsystems

[AmyJ]

1. Make sure the client computer is connected to the network and turned on and that it is not powered off by energy saving software.

 

 

 

2. If it is a mobile computer make sure it has not been “suspended” or put into “sleep” mode. (Restart a suspended Windows computer to let Retrospect see it.)

 

 

 

3. Make sure the client has the most recent version of the Retrospect client software and that the client software loads at startup. If it does not, follow the suggestions provided for the error “Client service not loaded at system startup” or “Retrospect Client not loaded at system startup” in the user’s guide.

 

 

 

4. Test the connection between the backup computer and the client by using Properties from Configure>Volumes. If it can connect with the client Retrospect displays its measured transfer rate in kilobytes per second. Also try pinging it (see “Testing and Pinging to Verify TCP/IP Communication” in the user’s guide).

 

 

[JeffV]

1. As stated before, I restarted the computer a few hours prior to the backup.

 

 

 

2a. My power settings disable power management when plugged in. The computer is always plugged in when backups are scheduled.

 

 

 

2b. Yesterday, the computer hibernated and later suspended during the course of the day. I awakened it but did not restart it and did not expect the backup to work. Curiously, the backup--a 4GB recycle backup at that--completed without a 530 error. (BTW, I never had problems with Retro 5.6 after suspend or hibernate; this is new in 6.0.)

 

 

 

3. As stated before, client is version 6.0. It loads automatically at startup.

 

 

 

4. As stated before, at all times I can ping the computer, and I have MS network and Terminal Services connectivity at all times between the notebook & desktop. As stated before, client Properties sometimes shows "Connected" (& the transfer rate) and sometimes I get a -530 error. (On the last point, obviously the client can connect sometimes, or I wouldn't get any backups from it at all!)

[JeffV]

Have I fallen through a crack, here?

[AmyJ]

Try uninstalling ZoneAlarm completely and try the backup again - do you see the same results?

 

 

 

Essentially, the errors you are seeing are being generated by the network saying that proper communication has been lost. There were no changes made in the client between 5.6 and 6.0 that would affect network access between the server and the application.

[JeffV]

I just removed ZAP, restarted, loaded Retro Pro, clicked Configure/Devices/Clients/[clientname]/Properties/Refresh. Error 530.

 

 

 

Stopped & restarted Retro Client service. As usual, connectivity was restored. But in the time it took to write this paragraph, it went down again.

 

 

 

As always, MS Network, Remote Desktop and 'ping' work without exception, even when Retro Client won't.

 

 

 

 

[cazprb]

I'm glad to see this, because I've been having the same problem. I was going to email Dantz tech support and now learn they have discontinued free email support. This in my will be the end of Retrospect as a viable backup program for the small user. Who can afford their support options unless they are a big company?

[JeffV]

Actually, ZoneAlarm is now absolved in my case, if ZoneAlarm's the problem you were having (see further down in the thread). Whatever the cause I sure can understand your frustration with 530 messages!

 

 

 

IMHO, newsgroups or web boards are preferable to e-mail support, because if someone else has gone before you, you can find the answer without doing any of the work[g]. Peer support is good, peer support + mfr participation is even better. Dantz's web board is still free. If you haven't already done so, start a new thread with your question, or continue appending to this one, if it really is the same problem.

 

 

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

Jeff

[AmyJ]

Hi Jeff -

 

 

 

I did some testing with Zone Alarm.

 

 

 

WinXP Pro SP 1 / Dell Optiplex GX260

 

Win Client 6.0

 

 

 

After allowing access for Retrospect on Port 497, I started backups and immediately started getting errors - 530 and 519. This machine has never gotten a networking error on backup in the past.

 

 

 

I uninstalled Zone Alarm and started a new backup that proceeded without errors.

 

 

 

While you say that Zone Alarm is no longer a factor, it appears that there might be a conflict with this program. We're willing to do some testing with Zone Alarm.

 

 

 

To help rule out third-party conflicts in your system:

 

 

 

Try disabling any non-Microsoft processes and startup items by going to Start > Run and typing msconfig.

 

 

 

In the System Configuration Utility, go to Services and hide all Microsoft Services. Disable all others. Repeat for Startup. Reboot and try a backup of the client.

 

 

[JeffV]

Thanks, Amy, for your reply.

 

 

 

I now think you may be right...conflicts with ZAP could well be the problem. When I first uninstalled, and booted up, I got a 530 error, as I reported, but since then it's been flawless, even despite hibernate & suspend cycles that have occurred since my last bootup.

 

 

 

I just restarted the notebook for the first time since my last message (without changing anything; ZAP still not installed). I waited about 10 minutes to make sure the Retro client had time to init, but still got the 530 error. After restarting the Retro client service, Retro connectivity is restored.

 

 

 

I will do as you say and let you know what happens. Thanks for your efforts.

 

 

 

Jeff

[JeffV]

With all 3rd-party services & startup programs disabled, I still get 530 errors.

 

 

 

I then uninstalled/reinstalled Retro Client with 3rd party stuff still disabled, and still get 530 errors.

 

 

 

Jeff

[AmyJ]

Right click on your Local Area Connection and get Properties. On the Advanced tab, make sure the Firewall is turned off (unchecked).

 

 

 

If you can connect to the client when re-starting the service, yet 10 minutes later that client is no longer on the network, some utility or program in your environment is blocking proper access. If ZoneAlarm has never been on this system, then it may be another third-party utility.

[JeffV]

Firewall is off. Per your instructions, no 3rd party software is loaded (see last post). ZoneAlarm, of course, WAS installed on the machine, but I uninstalled it per your instructions (see several posts ago) and have not reinstalled it since.

 

 

 

The only things left are services that come with WinXP & Retrospect. Bare bones. Vanilla.

 

 

 

Jeff

[JeffV]

Amy

 

 

 

I re-enabled the 3rd party stuff, (exc. ZoneAlarm still not reinstalled) and unattended backup ran just fine. Without even restarting the RS Client service after bootup.

 

 

 

A few hours later, having touched neither machine, the notebook is again giving me 530 errors when I try to connect to it through the RS UI from the desktop.

 

 

 

No pattern so far...sometimes RS Client works, sometimes it doesn't, and it doesn't seem to matter what is running.

 

 

 

Jeff

[AmyJ]

We will go ahead and test with ZoneAlarm to see if there are any conflicts. However, if you are seeing this error on your laptop (which has never had ZoneAlarm) then you've got some other utility or problem in the system that is preventing access to the client.

 

 

 

This is not a known issue with the 6.0 client and it is not being reported by other users in this forum or to Dantz Support. This is something in your configuration - another utility, network settings, corruption in the OS or network protocols, NIC, NIC drivers, etc. When you're stopping the service, you're releasing whatever is blocking access. When you start the service again, something is your system is detecting the change and blocking access again.

[JeffV]

You keep saying my notebook has never had ZoneAlarm. It has...that's what started this thread. It does not have it installed now, nor has it since you told me to remove it. But we have demonstrated that it fails randomly when ZoneAlarm is installed & running, installed & not running, or uninstalled.

 

 

 

That said, don't let this discourage you from making sure your product runs with ZoneAlarm, as I intend to reinstall it!

 

 

 

I see 51 posts, not including mine, when I search on "530" against all forum sections. Hard for me to say whether they're related, since error-reporting is rather limited with the RS Client. Most any network problem seems to be a "530" problem, and since we don't know what's triggering this problem, I don't know how you can say that they're unrelated, either.

 

 

 

I do know I never had a problem until I upgraded to RS 6.0, after which the problem appeared immediately.

 

 

 

Since we don't know how many forum users use the client, it's hard to know whether 51 posts is a big number or a little one, but that's irrelevant to me. I have the problem, and I don't have a solution after many hours troubleshooting before posting, and since.

 

 

 

I will try resetting TCP/IP on the notebook and see what happens.

 

 

 

It does make me wonder why Dantz chose to use their own network client & server instead of what's installed with Windows. I never have connectivity issues with the MS networking client and server between these two machines, nor with Internet connectivity, even concurrent with 530 errors. And that is my experience with the many other machines I supervise as a computer consultant. Your client software also raises security concerns for Internet-connected devices, particularly those without ZoneAlarm.

 

 

 

It is important to me to try to solve this, as a recommendation to a client whose system consists mostly of notebooks with locally-stored data, and unpredictable backup windows, rides on this. RS has promise for this application, but not if the client is as fragile as it appears to be, to me.

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Jeff

[JeffV]

I have reset TCP/IP per MSKB article 299357. I still get -530 errors.

[AmyJ]

Thanks for the update. I'll post when there is any new information available.

 

Error 530 is a network generated error that people experience from time to time. Other users are not experiencing this issue as a result of upgrading to 6.0 Retrospect. When you stop/start the client service and the Retrospect client shows up again this means something else in your configuration is blocking the client from being seen properly. It's not Retrospect. We're going to test with ZoneAlarm because I was able to reproduce the issue with that program installed.

 

Your first post indicated: Additional to Ethernet, notebook has wireless NIC and Firewire NIC.

 

Try disabling all but the standard ethernet wired connection to make sure there is not a conflict.

[JeffV]

I did that (disabled the other NICs) early on in my attempts to troubleshoot this and used it that way for 4 or 5 weeks. Neither are connected to anything during backups, but oddly, it actually seemed to get worse until I re-enabled them. Or maybe it was just a run of bad luck, since luck seems to be the least common denominator here.

 

 

[JeffV]

Cool...just noticed my thread made the top 10! My 15 minutes of fame.