seaview Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 I have downloaded and evaluating Retrospect. I am having problems with Verifying CDR Backup. Here is what I have tried with my 29G data backup. I did a test of the 29G to a secondary Hard Disk Drive with verify and worked perfect. I did a Small test to one CDR and Worked perfect. I did a Small test to one CDRW and worked perfect. Writing 29G to 22 CD's seemed ok at first. I did a backup to 22 CD's and the verify failed and also the verify was skiping CD's, out of 22 in the set it only asked for about 9. It seems when a file was larger than a CD only one cd containing the file would be requested. For Example I had a partition image file that was 2G and and on verify the next disk requested skipped 4 CD's Sample of Error messages. Trouble reading: "Backup Set A" (2477), error -206 (drive reported a failure: dirty heads, bad media, etc.) Additional error information for device "Sony CD-RW" [1:1], Sense > 70 00 03 00 05 28 2f 0a 00 00 00 00 11 00 00 00 00 00 (SONY |CD-RW CRX175A1 |5YS3) I did a test restore anyway and 200M database restored ok so I am wondering if the verify process is faulty with multiple CDR spanning. Other things I have tried. Two different new model CDRW Drives on two significantly different computers. Windows XP Pro Windows XP Pro with Service pack 1 I have a large collection of unverifiable CDR's by now :-( The CDRW drive works with windows XP CDRW writing and Nero. I have tried the software on a clean install of Windows XP pro that had no other CD writing software other the Windows XP inbuilt burning software. The software looks very good and may be actualy working but obviously I am not going to do backups that are un verifiable. Main Computer tried on. Windows XP Pro with Service Pack 1 and all windows updates. DFI Motherboard AD76 (SONY |CD-RW CRX175A1 |5YS3) Athelon XP 1900 512M RRD Ram (1 module) Am I wasting my time with CDR backups? I have large amount of data and only small amount of changes daily so I thought I could make up a backup set and about 1 CD a week would cover the incremental changes. Sounded simple. Thanks for your time. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted September 17, 2002 Report Share Posted September 17, 2002 In reply to: Two different new model CDRW Drives on two significantly different computers. When you tried other drive models, was it to do new backups or to read the media written by the original drive? In reply to: Additional error information for device "Sony CD-RW" [1:1], Sense > 70 00 03 00 05 28 2f 0a 00 00 00 00 11 00 00 00 00 00 Sense data is generated by the device and contains detailed information about error conditions. Typically only the hardware vendor can decipher what the exact error may be. Essentially, the drive is reporting that there is a problem. In reply to: Trouble reading: "Backup Set A" (2477), error -206 (drive reported a failure: dirty heads, bad media, etc.) This is how Retrospect reports hardware generated errors back out to the user. Troubleshooting involves many different variables, and the end result may not be a problem with the device, but with something else along the hardware bus. With a little troubleshooting, you should be able to isolate the cause of the problem. The first thing you want to try is a new disc. If the new disc works, then the disc you are seeing the error with is bad. If not, try another brand. If you see the error on all discs, you should look into the following possibilities: Was ASPI installed correctly? Run ASPICHK (in the Retrospect Program Files folder) to make sure ASPI is "green." If not, try a reinstall (ASPIINST.exe). If you still have problems, consult the Retrospect User's Guide or Adaptec's website. Enable NT SCSI Passthrough to bypass ASPI: From the Retrospect Directory hit Ctrl-Alt-P-P. Under "Execution," check "Enable NT SCSI Passthrough." Click OK. Quit and relaunch. If you still don't have any luck, I'd recommend the following hardware troubleshooting steps. Try straightening out the internal ribbon cabling. Try switching master and slave settings. Try new internal cabling. Try updating the firmware on the device if possible (see the drive manufacturer's website). Are the drivers for the IDE controller current? Try updating them with an approved update from your PC vendor. Finally, try bringing this drive to another PC and trying the backup. If it works here, you could be having a problem with either the ATAPI bus on the original machine or with the PC itself. I wouldn't depend on your current backup for emergencies. If Retrospect cannot verify the data, it cannot be restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaview Posted September 18, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 When you tried other drive models, was it to do new backups or to read the media written by the original drive? ian> Same Drives for Write then Read. ............................... The first thing you want to try is a new disc. If the new disc works, then the disc you are seeing the error with is bad. If not, try another brand. If you see the error on all discs, you should look into the following possibilities: ............................... > Ian I have a Sony CDRW drive and have used the disk's recomended for the drive which you would assume would be optimal. I have tried Kodak also. Small Single CDR Backups always verify and in testing have gone through more 50 CDR's today and you would assume the CDR's were ok. Spanning two or More CDR and the verify fails. Trying Sony CDRW and can Span with no verify problems. I tried some other old 12 x CDR drives as a last effort. Even though they are much slower than the CDR record speed they worked ok on spanning. Question is why do low speed CDR work in a high speed CDR drive? Why would the CDR disks with Sony CD Writer not work with the drive on spanning but ok on single disk backups? This is very confusing. ............................... Was ASPI installed correctly? Run ASPICHK (in the Retrospect Program Files folder) to make sure ASPI is "green." If not, try a reinstall (ASPIINST.exe). If you still have problems, consult the Retrospect User's Guide or Adaptec's website. ............................... Ian> In your help file it indicates that ASPI is not required to be installed on Windows XP Enable NT SCSI Passthrough to bypass ASPI: From the Retrospect Directory hit Ctrl-Alt-P-P. Under "Execution," check "Enable NT SCSI Passthrough." Click OK. Quit and relaunch. > Did this and no difference If you still don't have any luck, I'd recommend the following hardware troubleshooting steps. Try straightening out the internal ribbon cabling. >Ian Already replaced Try switching master and slave settings. >Ian - Already tried Try updating the firmware on the device if possible (see the drive manufacturer's website). >Ian - Can not find this on the sony site. Anyone know where I need to go? I am assuming since some CDR's work ok that a firmware would not help but someone may be able to explain what is going on. I found out on google http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=d632b63ddfa2a117&rnum=3 >Ian - I read fromt the above that it is possible to update the Firmware by the original manufaturer (Lite-On 24102B) but was reluctant at this stage due to warranty issues and the unknown results. Are the drivers for the IDE controller current? Try updating them with an approved update from your PC vendor. >Ian - Yes and I have even created a clean partition With Windows XP Pro SP1 and all windows updates. I also downloaded all the latest DFI mother board drives. Finally, try bringing this drive to another PC and trying the backup. If it works here, you could be having a problem with either the ATAPI bus on the original machine or with the PC itself. >Ian - Originally I tested Retrospect on a 3 year old computer with this drive and had the same problem. I assumed the computer was too old. New computer the same problem. I really want to get a handle on this. Any more suggestions? Do I need to contact the supplier of the CDR's Of course the drive came with Nero which works 100% and the built in Windows XP Pro CDR write function works ok with the Sony CDRW drive. It will obviously be difficult without more assistance to determine if I have a bad batch of CDRW. Also say I go out and purchase some new Kodak CDR's they will be higher speed and will this bring my problem back. How do the drives determine the write speed? Thanks for your time. http://www.mrichter.com/cdr/yesterdy.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 In reply to: > Trying Sony CDRW and can Span with no verify problems. I tried some other old 12 x CDR drives as a last effort. Even though they are much slower than the CDR record speed they worked ok on spanning. Question is why do low speed CDR work in a high speed CDR drive? Why would the CDR disks with Sony CD Writer not work with the drive on spanning but ok on single disk backups? This is very confusing. The drive may be having trouble with packet writing on faster transfers, or it may be bad media. Packet writing is a technology used in some CD-R and CD-RW drives, as specified in the Orange Book, a compact disc technical standards document. Packet writing allows incremental storage of files, making CD-R technology appropriate for backup. Retrospect sends the same copy/verify commands to the device, irregardless of whether it is CD-R or CD-RW media. It is up to the drive to properly handle the media. In this case, the drive is failing to properly handle the higher speed CD-R media that you are using. Try another brand. Different brands, speeds and types of media vary greatly. For best results, use a high-quality CD. Some drive manufacturers recommend that you use particular brands of media with their drives, while some do not support using high-speed media. Packet writing speed is determined entirely by the device in use. That is, Retrospect does not determine what speed the device can support, it simply sends data to the device as fast as it can write it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaview Posted September 21, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Retrospect sends the same copy/verify commands to the device, irregardless of whether it is CD-R or CD-RW media. It is up to the drive to properly handle the media. In this case, the drive is failing to properly handle the higher speed CD-R media that you are using. Try another brand. Ian > Ok are there better model CDRW drives that are gauranteed reliable? I originaly had a Benq drive that failed with retrospect then I checked you compatability list and selected a drive listed there. How good is your drive compatability list? Different brands, speeds and types of media vary greatly. For best results, use a high-quality CD. Some drive manufacturers recommend that you use particular brands of media with their drives, while some do not support using high-speed media. Ian > Well having a sony CDRW drive and using CDR media that is high speed and recomended from sony seems to make life confusing. Are there any CDR's that are good and work better than others. Can someone recommend a brand that does not require trial and error. I want something reliable. It seems the drive works ok if the data being backed up by Retrospect fits on only one CDR. I have toasted over 50 CDR's and every time single disk backups are fine. Multi spanning CDR backups fail everytime. This is strange. Packet writing speed is determined entirely by the device in use. That is, Retrospect does not determine what speed the device can support, it simply sends data to the device as fast as it can write it. Ian > Ok so there is no way to reduce the write speed? Thanks for any further info you can provide as I feel I have done everything reasonably expected in terms of Drive and CDR selection and I am getting frustrated. Thanks for your time. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awnews Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 I know you're not in the market for a new CDRW and would like to get your current stuff to work, but you might want to check out: http://www.cdrinfo.com/ for info on CDRW burners and CDR/CDRW media. I've used several brands of drives, including Plextor and Sony and some no-names. But recently I've only been using Lite-On (24x and 40x [now around $60], supported by Dantz Retrospect, Nero, EzCD, CloneCD and others)--"Mikey likes it, and it eats everything." Lite-Ons are also one of the brands with buffer-underrun protection. I use name-brand CDRs, off-brands, no-names CDRs [whatever's cheap, $30 with a $30 rebate...), burn media rated at 16x-24x at 32x and higher and haven't seen any problems in a long time--I don't have the time be sorting thru and diagnosing brands of CDR by trial & error. You might also want to track down a free program named CDRIdentifier. It's able to read some info off the CDR, and you'll find that there are actually only a few companies actually making the CDRs. Most of the vendors, even the "name brands" are actually relabeling CDRs from this core group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaview Posted September 21, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Thanks for the reply. I know you're not in the market for a new CDRW and would like to get your current stuff to work, but you might want to check out: Ian> Actualy my time and data is more valuable. I have wasted money on CDR's and a lot of time. http://www.cdrinfo.com/ for info on CDRW burners and CDR/CDRW media. Ian> Thanks will check out but still have to sort through a lot of info. I want a turnkey ready to go solution without all the hassles. I thought purchasing a CDR Drive on the Dantz Hardware compatablily list and same brand CDR was the way to go. But recently I've only been using Lite-On (24x and 40x [now around $60], supported by Dantz Retrospect, Nero, EzCD, CloneCD and others)--"Mikey likes it, and it eats everything." Lite-Ons are also one of the brands with buffer-underrun protection. Ian> I found the sony was realy a Lite-On 24102B and flashed with Lite-On firmware. Works the same but still faults with Dantz when using SONY CDR's The suppliers and sony swear that no one else is having trouble with the sony drive and sony CDR's but I am beginning to wonder. As it is realy a Lite-On and now has the firmware maybe the Sony disks are just plain faulty. I use name-brand CDRs, off-brands, no-names CDRs [whatever's cheap, $30 with a $30 rebate...), burn media rated at 16x-24x at 32x and higher and haven't seen any problems in a long time--I don't have the time be sorting thru and diagnosing brands of CDR by trial & error. Ian> Yes that is my point. You might also want to track down a free program named CDRIdentifier. It's able to read some info off the CDR, and you'll find that there are actually only a few companies actually making the CDRs. Most of the vendors, even the "name brands" are actually relabeling CDRs from this core group. Ian> worked that out. If the Lite-On works with all CDR media then why would I be having trouble with the Sony CDR media? It is rated 1x to 32x and the drive only writes at 24x is it possible the media is too sensitive to slower drives? Sounds silly but I am clutching at straws now. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaview Posted September 25, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2002 Ok everyone. Thanks for the feedback. The problem is the Media. Sony media 32x does not work with the sony CDRW drive or any other drive I have tried retrospect with. With slow burns using windows xp native or nero it is ok but does not read well in other computers. Got cheaper Benq media. Backs up and verifies fast and no errors. Surprisingly ;-( the supplier said no one has had problems despite me purchasing 2 x spindle packs over time, one marked made in HK and the other Tiwan. Sony blamed the software and said their media and drives can only be gauranteed if I use their lame software and even then I suspect their software burns slower to avoid problems. So if anyone has problems at all with Dantz and I suspect any packet writing software to CDR then try some other media even if it is slower than the drive. I had old Kodak 12x and they worked ok in a 24x drive. I never knew much about CDR and how it worked but after days of research on and off I have a bit of a handle on it. The speed on the box means nothing much, the brand again means nothing much even if you purchased it previously it may be manufactured by someone else, the CDR itent track means nothing much as the stamper can be made in one factory and used in an other low cost factory. This means CDR backup is a pain and there are no gaurantees. Many of the brands like Fuji suggested are not available in Australia. Kodak was always a good known quality but looks like they were not making enough money so stopped. Given this much trouble I am wondering if archiving to CDR is such a wise choice. Will the CDR's even be error free in 5 years? Given mixed standards of Recordable DVD I suspect even more problems. I junked my SCSI travan 4 drive as it was unreliable when I most needed it despite verifying all backups. What hardware and media is best for a small network and low budget? Thanks and I hope this is of help to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Thanks for the informative update. CD burners are very picky in regard to the type of media used, and sometimes it comes down to trial and error to see which brand plays nice with the drive you own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dleeward Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 I have an AOPEN CD-RW 1632 that will only burn at 12x on some IBM CD-R's that I have. Will I have trouble with Retrospect because it tries to burn at the highest speed supported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyJ Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 No, you shouldn't have any trouble. The data will be written at the highest possible speed allowed by all the hardware variables involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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