"Needs Media" stops all backups.

[Thomas Drolett]

Hi,

 

Overview:

I was successfully backing up 2 computers, referred to below, with 8.1. In the past 20 days every backup attempt fails with the blinking "tape cartridge" icon. All are reporting "Needs Media". This happened when I was running 10.6.2 and 10.6.3, contrary to a previous post I mistakenly posted on the wrong forum. I cannot backup any volume to any destination. : (

 

I attempted to link the beginning of these errors to the installation/deletion of other programs and OS updates and security patches. Nothing concrete there.

 

 

System Setup:

Client 1: G4 800 Digital Audio tower 1.25/120 + 60 GB (10.4.11), Client version 6.3.028

Client 2: MBP 2.33 Ghz, Rev.2,2 3/500 GB (10.63), Client version 6.3.028

Server: Mac Mini 2.53 Ghz 4/500 GB (10.63) , Version 8.1 (build 626) w/Driver Update 8.1.1.103

All catalogs are in their default location.

Backups are stored on a NAS Share.

Airport Extreme, Linksys Gigabit Ethernet switch

Static IP addressing. One subnet.

Mini and MBP are also running Time Machine.

 

Attempted remedies:

Checked Firewall to verify no connections were being blocked

Tested Client connections successfully.

Made sure I have permission to access the NAS share. Using afp.

Verified passwords on the Tower and the MBP.

Verified media sets successfully.

Ran Disk Utility: no permission or drive trouble reported

 

Nuke Everything:

Finally, I deleted all media sets, catalogs, backups, preferences. Ran the Uninstall Retrospect 8 Applescript.

Restarted

Reinstalled Server software on Mini. Entered it's IP address instead of the default.

Created new scripts, catalogs, etc.

 

Eliminate variables:

Attempted a manual backup named "Test" of a partition on the Tower (using the "Backup" icon) using a new catalog. Results: Retrospect begins to scan media and adds files, then stops and request media. I clicked on the "Choose Media…" button shown in the Summary window, pointed it to the folder 1-Test as the program requested, clicked "Add", nothing happens.

 

Clicked "Choose Media…" button again and added a new folder on an external drive connected to the server via FW 800. Nothing happens. (I did this to eliminate the NAS drive from the config in case it was the culprit.)

 

Log:

+ using Backup Assistant - 4/15/10 2:31 PM at 4/15/2010 2:32 PM (Execution unit 1)

To Media Set Test...

- 4/15/2010 2:32:51 PM: Copying OS 9 Apps on G4 Tower

4/15/2010 2:39:14 PM: Execution stopped by operator)

 

 

Your suggestions will be appreciated.

There is no joy. : |

TIA

Edited April 15, 2010 by Guest
More Information

[rhwalker]

Perhaps if we had some screen shots it would help, particularly when you try to Choose Media. If you have difficulty attaching screen shots, see:

Forum Attachment Rules Change

 

Also, what format for the filesystem on the NAS? And on the FW 800 external drive?

 

Russ

[CallMeDave]

Backups are stored on a NAS Share

 

Made sure I have permission to access the NAS share

 

What's important is that Retrospect have permission to access the NAS share. Sure, it's your account, but how did you test? Perhaps by logging into the share from the Finder?

 

If so, the Finder was the application that logged in the NAS (using your credentials).

 

OS X tracks mounted volumes by their name; it won't _ever_ allow the same named volume to be mounted more then once (no matter if they are the same volume or different volumes). But Apple engineers figured that Mac users would expect things to "just work," so OS X and the Finder do some behind-the-scenes naming that is causing confusion for Retrospect users.

 

To make it simple to understand, Retrospect is telling you that it can't find the Media it expects, because the media it expects is not there _with the same name it had when you set it up._

 

Compare:

 

Sources->NAS Share->Summary(tab)->[color:purple]Path[/color](field)

 

with

 

Media Sets->MediaSetFoo->Members Tab->[color:purple]Location[/color](column)

 

Are the names [color:red]exactly[/color] the same?

[Thomas Drolett]

Compare:

 

Sources->NAS Share->Summary(tab)->Path(field)

 

with

 

Media Sets->MediaSetFoo->Members Tab->Location(column)

 

Are the names exactly the same?

 

They appear to be the same, but the name of the NAS drive partition is "backups", not "backups-1" . The NAS drive is a LaCie Ether BD. I added it as a source via afp. I'm not sure how or what I need to change. I've posted 2 screen shots here:

Media Sets And Sources Screens

 

Thanks for all the help.

[Thomas Drolett]

Screen shots provided here:

Media Sets and Sources Screens

 

Tom

 

[rhwalker]

Tom, I believe that your screen shots show that you are seeing what David (CallMeDave) was suspecting. I think that the answer is best explained in this thread:

Needs Media error

 

Not to say that the current design is great, it is what it is, and this is a thorny problem. But I think it's all explained in the thread linked above.

 

It's not a problem that I personally ever have seen - all of our backup is to tape, using sources that are either (a) always local and mounted at boot for our server, or ( always local and mounted at boot for a Retrospect client. We don't do backup of network-mounted volumes, only through the Retrospect client, which is why I've never faced this problem.

 

Russ

[CallMeDave]

I believe that your screen shots show that you are seeing what David (CallMeDave) was suspecting.

 

Actually, the screen shot does _not_ show a difference between the path to the Member and the path to the Volume; both have the "-1" appended to the name. But perhaps the user continued to try and fix the problem before taking the screen shot. This stuff can be fluid.

 

Of course if/when the machine is restarted, if no user manually mounts the "backups" volume via the Finder the two will no longer be matched and it will fail again.

 

Dave

[CallMeDave]

We don't do backup of network-mounted volumes

 

Actually the problem as it's seen here on the board is not when network volumes are used as the [color:purple]Source[/color] of the backup (where "source" is used as a dictionary might define it), but when network volumes are used as [color:purple]Members[/color] of Disk Media Sets (where "source" is used with the twisted logic of the original Retrospect 8 GUI designer(s)).

[Thomas Drolett]

Dave (and others),

 

I did some testing to see if my NAS drive WAS mounted twice hence the appearance of "backups-1" in Retrospect.

 

Here's what I did:

1 Restarted the Mac running the server

2 Started the server, then the client

[color:red]3 Using the Terminal, ls -l /Volumes shows that "backups" is mounted.

(drwx------@ 7 root wheel 264 Apr 17 18:31 backups)

4 Permissions trouble??[/color]

5 Verified my Media Sets. Each member points to /Volumes/backups/

6 From the "Sources" pane I was able to "Browse" the Source Name "backups" (in the "Machine" column shows the IP address of the NAS drive but that "OS" column shows "Unknown") The "Summary" tab list the file system as "Mac OS AppleShare"

7 Went to the "Scripts" pane, clicked on a script, then the "Run" button.

8 Was asked to choose a Media Set. The default and only choice was highlighted. Selected it.

 

After 5 minutes or so, the darn "Needs Media" error appears. Selecting "Choose media…" and selecting the member from the list does nothing.

 

Thanks for all your help. I'm beginning to think that this is a Bug. I've spent [color:green]12 hours[/color] on this issue so far. There is no joy in Retrospect land.

[Thomas Drolett]

FWIW,

This "Newbie" has successfully set up dozens of Retrospect solutions for clients since I started in 1986. My point is, this shouldn't be so tough to resolve.

 

I am very grateful for all the assistance the members of this forum have provided. As a Consultant, how can I recommend this product to my Clients?

 

Should I call tech support at this juncture?

[CallMeDave]

As a Consultant, how can I recommend this product to my Clients?

 

I'm gonna start with the harshest comment first (since they're the most fun for me):

 

As a Consultant, if you don't know how to use a particular technology solution you probably should't charge for your advice regarding it.

 

I'm beginning to think that this is a Bug

 

Maybe, or maybe not. I'm thinking that you've made some mistakes in using the program.

 

Let's try and take the available information and steps to see if User Error is apparent.

 

1 Restarted the Mac running the server

 

Good first step; let's make sure "server" refers to the "Retrospect Engine host machine."

 

 

2 Started the server, then the client

 

Default install has the Engine start when the system does; did you change this? So "Started the server" means a visit to the Retrospect pane of System Preferences on the Host machine?

 

"... the client" is likely a red herring in this discussion; let's just ignore the backup Source; your issue seems to be with the Member of your Media Set (the Destination, in Retrospect Classic nomenclature).

 

 

3 Using the Terminal, ls -l /Volumes shows that "backups" is mounted.

Good; the share point used as the Member of your Media Set is available for Retrospect's use.

 

 

6 From the "Sources" pane I was able to "Browse" the Source Name "backups"

Good.

 

(in the "Machine" column shows the IP address of the NAS drive but

that "OS" column shows "Unknown") The "Summary" tab list the file

system as "Mac OS AppleShare"

 

So?

 

You've omitted the only relevant part of the Summary tab, the part I asked you to check up-thread. All that matters is that the path to the volume (currently [color:purple]/Volumes/backups/[/color]) matches the path that Retrospect is going to expect for the Member's location.

 

 

7 Went to the "Scripts" pane, clicked on a script, then the "Run" button.

You've jumped ahead, oddly since the things to check were already provided up-thread.

 

Before clicking on any buttons, what does

[color:purple]Media Sets->Wilderness->Members Tab->1-Wilderness Location(column)

[/color]show?

 

If the actual path to the volume (as reflected in the Source window) is NOT THE SAME as the Location that was originally provided when the Member was added to the Media Set, Retrospect will be looking along a path THAT DOES NOT CURRENTLY EXIST!

 

So if the Sources window shows [color:purple]/Volumes/backups/[/color] and the Member tab Location column shows [color:purple]/Volumes/backups-1/[/color] then you must first fix the discrepancy before your backups can run (to that Member).

 

You could perform computer magic to change the former, but the wisest course is to correct the latter:

 

- Select the mis-named Member

- Click the pencil icon

- Navigate to [color:purple]backups[/color] in the drop-down sheet

- Click Save

- Confirm that the Location column now correctly displays /Volumes/backups/

 

Then click the Run button in your script.

 

If you restart the Engine host machine again, be sure _not_ to mount [color:purple]backups[/color] manually (ie from Finder) unless/until the Retrospect Engine has had a chance to mount it for itself (it's OK if _you_ interact with the share point as [color:purple]backups-1[/color] but not OK for Retrospect to be asked to do so).

 

Should I call tech support at this juncture?

It's Sunday, so they're probably closed.

 

 

Dave

[Thomas Drolett]

Dave,

 

Maybe, or maybe not. I'm thinking that you've made some mistakes in using the program.

 

Let's try and take the available information and steps to see if User Error is apparent.

 

1 Restarted the Mac running the server

 

Good first step; let's make sure "server" refers to the "Retrospect Engine host machine."

[color:blue]It Does.[/color]

 

2 Started the server, then the client

 

Default install has the Engine start when the system does; did you change this?

[color:blue]Yes[/color]

So "Started the server" means a visit to the Retrospect pane of System Preferences on the Host machine?

[color:blue]Correct[/color]

 

3 Using the Terminal, ls -l /Volumes shows that "backups" is mounted.

 

Good; the share point used as the Member of your Media Set is available for Retrospect's use.

 

 

6 From the "Sources" pane I was able to "Browse" the Source Name "backups"

 

Good.

 

You've omitted the only relevant part of the Summary tab, the part I asked you to check up-thread. All that matters is that the path to the volume (currently /Volumes/backups/) matches the path that Retrospect is going to expect for the Member's location.

[color:blue]I did this as you suggested up-thread and posted. Sorry if I did not make that clear.[/color]

 

7 Went to the "Scripts" pane, clicked on a script, then the "Run" button.

 

You've jumped ahead, oddly since the things to check were already provided up-thread.

[color:blue]I already verified that these paths were the same post-thread. I just checked again.[/color]

Please look at these: Media Sets and Sources Screens 4/19

 

Before clicking on any buttons, what does

Media Sets->Wilderness->Members Tab->1-Wilderness Location(column)

show?

[color:blue]/Volumes/backups/[/color]

 

You could perform computer magic to change the former, but the wisest course is to correct the latter:

 

- Select the mis-named Member

- Click the pencil icon

- Navigate to backups in the drop-down sheet

- Click Save

- Confirm that the Location column now correctly displays /Volumes/backups/

 

Then click the Run button in your script.

[color:blue]Done.

Same Error![/color]

If you restart the Engine host machine again, be sure _not_ to mount backups manually (ie from Finder) unless/until the Retrospect Engine has had a chance to mount it for itself (it's OK if _you_ interact with the share point as backups-1 but not OK for Retrospect to be asked to do so).

[color:blue]Understood[/color].

 

Thanks again.

Tom

[CallMeDave]

I already verified that these paths were the same post-thread

 

OK, my mis-reading.

 

(in the "Machine" column shows the IP address of the NAS drive but that "OS" column shows "Unknown") The "Summary" tab list the file system as "Mac OS AppleShare"

 

Then my earlier dismissive comment was likely unwarranted; what _is_ the "backups" volume/share/device/os ?

 

 

Dave

[Thomas Drolett]

what _is_ the "backups" volume/share/device/os ?

 

The device is a Lacie Ethernet BD. It is an 2009 1TB model like This Device .

I connect to it in the finder using "afp://192.168.2.80".

I'd been using it successfully w/Retrospect until this error started popping up. I cannot attribute the beginning of the problem to a specific event, such as a software update, etc.

 

See attached file.

 

HTH,

 

Tx Dave.

[CallMeDave]

I connect to it in the finder using "afp://192.168.2.80"

 

Just to be clear and repetitive, connecting from the Finder is troublesome; the issue is adding to the Source.

 

(in the "Machine" column shows the IP address of the NAS drive but that "OS" column shows "Unknown") The "Summary" tab list the file system as "Mac OS AppleShare"

 

OK, I just confirmed with my little setup that an OS X 10.5 box acting as a NAS shows the same information for a Source volume successfully accessable as a Member of a Disk Media Set. So it's not that.

 

I'd been using it successfully w/Retrospect until this error started popping up

 

I'd say next step is to Rebuild the Catalog.

 

 

Dave

[Thomas Drolett]

I'd say next step is to Rebuild the Catalog.

 

I recreated all Media Sets and Catalogs from scratch. FWIW, here's the log:

 

+ Retrospect version 8.1.626.1

Launched at 4/25/2010 1:07 PM

 

+ Driver Update and Hot Fix, version 8.1.1.103

+ Normal backup using Nightly Mini at 4/25/2010 1:07 PM

To Media Set Mini...

- 4/25/2010 1:07:21 PM: Copying MiniMac HD

[color:red]>[/color]

 

Media request for "1-Mini" timed out after waiting 0:20:00

4/25/2010 1:33:06 PM: Execution incomplete

Remaining: 465176 files, 30.8 GB

Completed: 0 files, zero KB

Performance: 0.0 MB/minute

Duration: 00:25:44 (00:25:40 idle/loading/preparing)

 

+ Executing Verify at 4/25/2010 1:39 PM

To Media Set Wilderness...

4/25/2010 1:39:40 PM: Execution completed successfully

+ Executing Verify at 4/25/2010 1:39 PM

To Media Set OS 9 Apps...

4/25/2010 1:39:51 PM: Execution completed successfully

+ Executing Verify at 4/25/2010 1:40 PM

To Media Set Mini...

4/25/2010 1:40:07 PM: Execution completed successfully

+ Executing Verify at 4/25/2010 1:40 PM

To Media Set MBP...

4/25/2010 1:40:17 PM: Execution completed successfully

+ Executing Verify at 4/25/2010 1:40 PM

To Media Set excellent os...

4/25/2010 1:40:24 PM: Execution completed successfully

+ Executing Verify at 4/25/2010 1:40 PM

To Media Set Documents...

4/25/2010 1:40:32 PM: Execution completed successfully

 

 

Over the past few weeks, I've tried everything. Monday, I'm calling support. Thanks to all who have helped, especially "Dave".

 

I wonder if "Mayoff" is following this?

 

 

Here's a thought, I removed "backups" as a "Source" and restated RS. I added "backups" by adding a share using "afp://192.168.2.80/backups", username "tom", password "foo".

Attempted a backup and received the same "needs media" error.

Mounted "backups" in the Finder and looked in the terminal:

 

Cool-N-Square:~ tom$ ls -l /volumes

total 16

lrwxr-xr-x 1 root admin 1 Apr 24 09:39 MiniMac HD -> /

drwxr-xr-x 7 tom staff 306 Apr 13 23:46 RazorSQL

drwxrwxr-t 47 tom staff 1666 Apr 24 12:33 WhiteTB

drwx------@ 6 root wheel 264 Apr 25 2010 backups

drwx------@ 6 tom staff 264 Apr 25 2010 backups-1

drwx------ 20 tom staff 1122 Apr 17 16:24 drolett

lrwxr-xr-x 1 tom admin 16 Apr 24 09:39 iDisk -> /Volumes/drolett

Cool-N-Square:~ tom$

[color:red]Notice that RS mounts "backups" as "root", Finder as "tom".

[/color]

Does this mean anything?

 

On another note, my RS server is running on a Mac that has 2 accounts on it, one for me and one for my wife. Both have Administrator privileges. She never uses the NAS drive that has "backups" on it. I'm wondering if this "second" account has anything to do with the problem?

Edited April 25, 2010 by Guest
More information

[CallMeDave]

I recreated all Media Sets and Catalogs from scratch

 

I was hoping you'd simply Rebuild the existing Catalog, to see if that works, but ok, moving on to starting from scratch.

 

A "Media Set" is the _set_ of the Catalog file and the Member(s) where the data is stored. When you (re)create a Media Set you create a Catalog _and_ you Add Members to the set.

 

FWIW, here's the log

 

Having the exact steps you took in creating your fresh Media Set would be helpful before looking at the log of a failed execution. For example, did you restart before creating a new Media Set? Did you access the NAS volume from the Finder between the time you restarted and the time you added that Volume as a Member of the Media Set?

 

Media request for "1-Mini" timed out

 

Since the existing screen shots were for a Media Set named "Documents" we're missing confirmation/information about what Retrospect is seeing in regards to the Source location and the expected Member location of the Media Set named "Mini"

 

[color:red](I)[/color] Mounted "backups" in the Finder

Notice that RS mounts "backups" as "root", Finder as "tom"

 

Assuming that you are user "tom," why do you suggest Retrospect mounted it as you? You mounted the volume in Finder, which shows you as the owner. Retrospect mounted it via superuser unix tools, which shows root as the owner.

 

It's Mac OS X that renames the volume, not Retrospect.

 

I'm wondering if this "second" account has anything to do with the problem?

 

We still don't know what the problem is, really. But Retrospect doesn't know about or care about other user accounts; it works at a lower level then that. It _does_ care about the path to volumes, which can get hosed by OS X's mechanism of renaming things on the fly.

 

I still think it's a path name issue, since that issue has been reported time and time again here. Yes you have provided screen shots that suggest it's _not_ that issue, but my Gut Feeling remains.

[Thomas Drolett]

If I had an extra Mac, I'd reinstall RS on that. I am dead in the water here.

 

I was hoping you'd simply Rebuild the existing Catalog, to see if that works, but ok, moving on to starting from scratch.

 

[color:blue]They were empty so there was nothing to rebuild. I created these a few days ago and there have been no successful backups to any catalog. I supposed I should've tried this 12 days ago when we started attempts to get me back up (no pun intended) and running.

[/color]

A "Media Set" is the _set_ of the Catalog file and the Member(s) where the data is stored. When you (re)create a Media Set you create a Catalog _and_ you Add Members to the set.

Understood

Having the exact steps you took in creating your fresh Media Set would be helpful before looking at the log of a failed execution

[color:green] 1 Clicked the "Add: icon in the Media Set window.

2 Set type to "Disk".

3 Named the Media Set "Media Set A".

4 Accepted the default location for the catalog.

5 Set security to "None".

6 Clicked "Add"

7 When "Add a new member to this Media Set" dialog opens, "backups" is highlighted by default.

8 Clicked "Add"

9 Verified the Member "1-Media Set A".

[/color]

 

For example, did you restart before creating a new Media Set?

[color:blue]Yes[/color]

Did you access the NAS volume from the Finder between the time you restarted and the time you added that Volume as a Member of the Media Set?

[color:blue]No[/color]

 

(I) Mounted "backups" in the Finder

Notice that RS mounts "backups" as "root", Finder as "tom"

Assuming that you are user "tom," why do you suggest Retrospect mounted it as you? [color:blue]I'm asked for a username and password when I add "backups" as a "Source"[/color] You mounted the volume in Finder, which shows you as the owner. Retrospect mounted it via superuser unix tools, which shows root as the owner.

It's Mac OS X that renames the volume, not Retrospect.

 

[color:blue]Understood[/color].

 

I still think it's a path name issue, since that issue has been reported time and time again here. Yes you have provided screen shots that suggest it's _not_ that issue, but my Gut Feeling remains.

[color:blue]How do you suggest I proceed? The "needs media" error appears even when I test with an attached USB drive. Even a simple backup to the Mini's DVD drive ends with the same error. At this juncture, ALL BACKUPS fail.

[/color]

Thank you for sticking with me on this issue!

[CallMeDave]

The "needs media" error appears even when I test with an attached USB drive.

 

Again, without specific steps this little nugget either proves you're mistakes are following you from Member to Member, or are revealing some other cause is at play. And while the information you've given above is clearer it still leaves wiggle room.

 

Here's where I'm troubled:

1 Clicked the "Add: icon in the Media Set window.

 

Your first step begins when the Source (to be used as Member storage) is already added to Retrospect; any naming issues would not be solved by the steps you took.

 

I'd much rather see you try cleaner:

- Shut down the Engine

- Remove the preferences from /Library/Application Support/Retrospect/

- Restart the Engine Host Machine (to clear out network share points)

- Start the Engine (if it didn't start on system start)

- Start the Console and connect to the Engine, adding the license number as required

- THEN add the NAS as a Source (and while you're in Sources make a new Favorite Folder of some small, local folder such as /usr/bin/)

- THEN create a new Disk Media Set

- THEN add a Member on the NAS

- then make a Backup Script using the small Source and the new Media Set

 

Yeah, it's a drag; but without knowing you've gone through those steps, in that order, there is simply no way to be certain what has been done and when. Sorry.

 

 

Dave

[Thomas Drolett]

I'd much rather see you try cleaner:

- Shut down the Engine

- Remove the preferences from /Library/Application Support/Retrospect/

- Restart the Engine Host Machine (to clear out network share points)

- Start the Engine (if it didn't start on system start)

- Start the Console and connect to the Engine, adding the license number as required

- THEN add the NAS as a Source (and while you're in Sources make a new Favorite Folder of some small, local folder such as /usr/bin/)

- THEN create a new Disk Media Set

- THEN add a Member on the NAS

- then make a Backup Script using the small Source and the new Media Set

 

Backup failed with the same "needs media" error.

Just to be clear, the NAS drive is added as a "Share". I have always added it like this.

 

[color:red]BUT IF I CREATE A NEW MEDIA SET AS A "File", THE BACKUP SUCCEEDS.

[/color] Something's not working when I make a "Disk" catalog type, which is what I need.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Thanks.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Guest
Tried different Catalog type with success.

[CallMeDave]

Well, a File Media Set doesn't have "Members" per se, so the program doesn't need to keep track of paths other then the Catalog. There is also no tracking of available disk space, so Retrospect just keeps writing until there is no more space left free.

 

The only thing that's missing from discussion in this thread is confirmation that Retrospect sees sufficient _capacity_ in the Member.

 

- In the step above [color:purple]"THEN add a Member on the NAS"[/color] what was shown in the "Use at most" fields?

 

- In the Members tab of the Media Set, what's shown as Free?

[Thomas Drolett]

- In the step above "THEN add a Member on the NAS" what was shown in the "Use at most" fields?

 

707 GB

[CallMeDave]

Backup failed with the same "needs media" error.

 

Stumped me. Time to call Robin's folks directly.

 

 

Dave

[Thomas Drolett]

I really appreciate your help.

 

Hate the though of dishing out around $70.00 for support but I can't rely on "File" backups, even though they work 100% of the time. : |

 

tom

[CallMeDave]

Last we heard EMC was not charging for Retrospect 8 support incidents; but that may have changed by now.

 

Most users around here are successfully using Disk Media Sets with NAS Members, so it's likely something specific to your configuration or the steps you're taking.

 

Dave