Richy_Boy Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 (edited) At a time where 7.7 has some show-stopping bugs even doing simple day to day backups/grooming, why on earth are EMC developers spending time pissing about making iphone apps for RS8 MAC users? Answers on a postcard... >> http://forums.dantz.com/showtopic.php?tid/33219/ << In the meantime, if they can develop an app that can do my backups, that would be great as RS 7.7 is friggin' useless. Rich - rant over. Edited February 15, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnpeters Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Rich - I share some of your frustration. While I happen to have a couple of iPhones and may make my next notebook a Mac, my primary interest is protecting my Windows machines, and it seems like the Windows platforms get a lower priority in the Retrospect development scheme. Maybe Retrospect started with Apple, and they're trying to stay true to their roots. Nonetheless, even though Apple may be a superior platform, most business action is with Windows. What am I missing here? I respectively suggest that if EMC sees it's future with Apple instead of Windows, they better make it a LOT more user friendly than it presently is. - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayoff Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) The Windows program is far from a low priority. The next scheduled release is 1) Bug fixes for 7.7 and 2) 7.7 in 11 languages. Getting a product out in 11 languages is a time consuming process and a requirement for the business. The next Macintosh release is actually delayed while we work on the Windows version. The iPhone app was developed by one engineer on his free time. That same iPhone app will soon give you the ability to monitor your windows backups from an iPhone also, which is a pretty helpful tool for all backup administrators. Edited February 16, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon88 Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 I for one like to have the iPhone. Can't use it yet, because we do not use the Mac version of Retrospect. But according to the App Store it will be supported in the future. Personally I rather not have the devs work on multiple languages at this time. English is fine for me. But the marketing dept probably has researched this. After all it is important EMC makes enough money to remain competitive. But I do agree bug fixes would be more important atm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon88 Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Oops, of course I meant "iPhone App". Not "iPhone":... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richy_Boy Posted February 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 (edited) Hi Mayoff, can you tell me what bug fixes are scheduled to be released and when? Are there any rough dates for when RS8 for Windows will be released? RS 7.7 is certainly looking like a poor relation to RS 8 right now and it's the only product on my network that I dred upgrading as I know it will be full of bugs, but have to upgrade regardless to protect devices using the latest released OS. The RS iphone app looks great, but it only adds to the frustration that EMC are seemingly developing finishing touches for Mac users, whilst 7.7 users are struggling to do simple backup tasks. Rich Edited February 16, 2010 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayoff Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 I wish we were putting finishing touches on the Mac product. We have a huge list of features in the Windows product that still do not exist on the Mac side. The grass is always greener.... The Mac users would say the same about that product when looking over at Windows. No, I do not have a list of bug fixes for you. I know some of you would like us to only work on an english product, but English is by far not the only language using Retrospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnpeters Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Come on Robin, let's cut to the chase. 7.6 had some serious problems and we were able, for a price, to upgrade to 7.7. Now you tell us there are fixes on the way and I hope we aren't expected to pay for them. But, the bottom line is that 8.0, which we're supposed to believe will make everything right, is in the wings and it's a safe bet we'll be expected to pay again. I have/had a lot of respect for Retrospect, but give us a break. Please tell me I'm not going to have to pay for TWO and maybe THREE upgrades to fix existing problems in the space of a few months. I bought your products, including Mozy, simply because I wanted a reliable backup system, but I'm starting to get an uncomfortable feeling that this may be a marketing ploy. I did not think I was buying a subscription to a continuing series of necessary updates required to fulfill the original promise of a reliable backup system. Please tell me I'm wrong. - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayoff Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Humm, I don't remember saying anything about a paid upgrade for users of Retrospect 7.7 or for users of 8.1 on the Macintosh. The next releases for both products are free updates. Also if you purchase an ASM contract you get unlimited support and free updates (when they are paid) for that contract period. The upgrade to 7.7 from 7.6 was a paid upgrade because it contained new features (like the DR CD) that required a lot of time and engineering effort to bring to customers. Not to mention we pay Microsoft for each DR CD downloaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Dave, you don't want Retrospect 8 in its present condition. Take a look at the Macintosh Retrospect 8 forum. Over a year after its release, it's extremely buggy (at least an order of magnitude worse than Windows 7.7), there is no manual, and it cannot read backups made by any earlier version of Retrospect. Don't wish for Retrospect 8 right now, because you might just get what you want and be in a real mess. It's not ready for production use. When the expected next bugfix update comes in a few months, it might be worth evaluating. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayoff Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 The next update for the Mac should contain backwards compatibility. We delayed the bug fix release so we could get that into the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 The next update for the Mac should contain backwards compatibility. We delayed the bug fix release so we could get that into the product. That's the best news I have heard yet. Delay the release even more so that it can be thoroughly tested. Reliability plus backward compatibility would be excellent. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamson Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I just think they need to decide if they really want Retrospect to be an "Enterprise" backup solution. MAC's have a very small if any part in most enterprises. Last time I checked nearly all web servers, database servers, file servers, Active Directory servers, (need I go on), run on Windows or UNIX. As we speak they are losing their share of the "Enterprise" backup market because 7.7 just plain doesn't work yet. But I guess that's not important as long as you have a good backup of the "Creative Guy"'s MAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richy_Boy Posted February 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I suspect the recent MAC attention is due to their positioning within EMC. EMC have a handful of different backup solutions and probably a chunk of the Dantz developers have been poached to work on these 'bigger budget' ventures. Interesting on their backup solution web page RS is not mentioned: http://www.emc.com/solutions/business-need/backup-recovery-archiving/backup-recovery.htm Avamar - Deduplicate data globally and at the source for fast, secure backup and recovery across your enterprise—including VMware environments, remote offices, and data center LANs. Avamar Data Store - Streamline deployment and management of data deduplication backup and recovery with pre-packaged software and pre-configured hardware. Avamar Virtual Edition for VMware - Combine data deduplication with VMware to accelerate virtual machine backup and eliminate dedicated backup server infrastructure. HomeBase - Gain fast, repeatable server recoveries and migrations across dissimilar hardware. MozyPro - Minimize costs and reduce maintenance with offsite backup for your desktops, laptops, and Microsoft Windows servers. NetWorker - EMC NetWorker supports a wide range of backup and recovery, including backup to disk, data replication, continuous data protection, and deduplication. How rude! An enterprise network would surely be using Networker, which looks useful (yet too expensive for us!) Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnpeters Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Robin - While the 7.7 DR feature is nice, it isn't the reason I paid to upgrade. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like every paid upgrade mentions bug fixes. Since the reason we use these products is to protect our data, bugs, particularly known bugs that might compromise the integrity of our data isn't something most of us can afford, thus the necessity of paying for the latest version. So, I paid to upgrade to 7.7 and will probably pay to upgrade to 7.8, 7.9 or 8.0 when they're ready, not because of any new features, but because I can't ignore the fact that my existing version may not be as safe as I think it is. I don't mind paying for an annual upgrade, but more often than that would get a little irritating. - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayoff Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 EMC have a handful of different backup solutions and probably a chunk of the Dantz developers have been poached to work on these 'bigger budget' ventures. Before some crazy rumor starts. That is totally 100% incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeDave Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Last time I checked nearly all web servers, database servers, file servers, Active Directory servers, (need I go on), run on Windows or UNIX. And what company is the world’s largest Unix vendor? Can you say [color:purple]"UNIX 03 Certified?"[/color] http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3555.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnpeters Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 "Dave, you don't want Retrospect 8 in its present condition." Thanks Russ, I'm still learning that it isn't always prudent to immediately buy the latest and the greatest. I hope that Robin and EMC recognize that none of our comments are meant to demean Retrospect. We all have a considerable investment (time and money) in this product, and we want it to be the best. I hope our concerns and constructive criticisms are taken in the spirit that they're intended. - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I've tried to be constructive. However, our firm bets its existence on our backup software, so that software must be reliable, and we must be able to recover from our backups. Those are the two basic requirements, and they can't be minimized. Retrospect saved our firm a few years ago when our floor of our office building burned down. No data was lost because of offsite backups. When (not if) such a tragedy happens again, we need to be able to count on our backup software. There will be hardware failures. There will be tragedies such as fires and flood. But our data needs to be recoverable. I agree with most of the design decisions made for Retrospect 8, painful as those design decisions must have been. My only issue is that it was released prematurely. When it matures a bit, it should be an excellent product and an excellent backup solution. Backup software is not a game. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldesktop Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I think the bigger concern is that the Retrospect team thinks it is a good idea to release software that is not ready for prime time. At first, I thought this was limited to just the Mac platform. Based on this thread, it is apparent it is with everything this team touches. Thus, one must make the conclusion that there are a few problems within this team... 1) There are not enough bodies on the development team (hello manual) 2) Releases are being pushed out the door with complete disregard for quality control Iomega/EMC should be ashamed! For the 'PC Guy' who thinks that the Mac product is killing your buzz, at least you have other options at this price point. It's time for Iomega/EMC to step up to the plate. It is time to clearly announce your strategy with timelines and apologize for this mess you have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvil Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I think most of you guys are correct and EMC Retrospect rearly needs to focus on the right issues instead of makes support for new languages and new features. French people can read english and if not just too bad! Basicly we need backup of all current windows versions including all Windows options as ISS/AD/Wins/TS license/ exchange 2010! ect. plus Linux/Netware/Mac. And we need the issue where grooming messes up the catalog files fixed as this bug has been around for years now. Come on EMC... if you want to be in the game you need to do some serius sooner than later. Regards Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon88 Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 I agree. It would be preferable if the core product would be less buggy/problematic than it is at this time. I can understand the marketing decision to support multiple languages and what extra business that brings potentially. However it would be a waste if the core product is not up to spec and the whole multi language operation hinders the improvements that the core product -really- needs. Besides that, it's going to be interesting to see what's going to happen with non-english speaking forum visitors. They are going to need mods with those language skills as well. Or maybe Robin is fluent in a lot of languages and we just don't know! :teeth: Talking about Robin. I still find it absolutely fantastic he regularly responds to questions on this forum. Most companies don't give that kind of support and I think the fact EMC provides this is something commendable. So besides all the complaints he gets every day on this forum I like to say thanks to Robin for his continuing presence and support. :thanks: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayoff Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Thanks Ramon. I would like to provide more forum replies but I just don't have time. One thing that happens more, that many of you may not see is that we have a team of engineers that review forum threads every day for known issues and new bugs they did not know about. I then get a daily report on what they find. Those engineers are working on bug fixes based on things they do read in the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richy_Boy Posted February 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) I'd also like to thank you for your continued presense on the forum Mayoff. You seem to be the only communication we have with the RS team (bar twitter and the blog, which is a bit random). I think our concerns are the amount of serious and often obvious bugs that are being found by the community on every release, it's not something you expect or want in a backup solution. I'm still keen to see some kind of roadmap for the product, not bothered about dates, just some idea where you plan to go with it and what functionality is being worked on in the future... Cheers, Richard Edited February 19, 2010 by Guest it's Friday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrtmath Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 I've used Dantz products since 1985, so I like the product a lot, but have always been concerned with the bugs. I'm running Retrospect 7.6.123 on a Windows 2003 Server. I'm rebuilding the backup to disk catalog file yet again after grooming failed, which will take a couple of days to process 6 TB of data. I have to do this 2-3 times a year, but I live with it. I have had instances where backup downtime due to rebuilds has caused some lost files to be unrecoverable because the computer that lost the file wasn't being backed up for several days. So all I want is for grooming as well as disaster recovery issues to be fixed once and for all. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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