Can we log out of computers running Snow Leopard and have successful backups with Retrospect 8?

[swk]

We are using Retrospect 8.1, and our Mac mini server, and all three of our iMacs are running Snow Leopard, Mac OS 10.6.2. We are able to have successful backups if we do not log out of our computers when we leave for the day.

 

If we do log out of our computers, the Retrospect backup does not work and we get 1101 error messages on at least one of the machines. With our former version of Retrospect (and former Mac OS) we could log out of our machines and have a successful backup.

 

Is it possible to have a successful backup when logged out of our machines? Is this a bug?

 

Thanks.

[Maser]

we do all the time. But we don't use Filevault (if that's in play here...)

[rhwalker]

I agree with Steve about the FileVault issue, but it seems to me that Retrospect client needs to have a way to be given Keychain access so that it could back up FileVault encrypted stuff (perhaps that's a needed product enhancement?).

 

That said, what version of the Retrospect client (x.x.x) are you running? There are numerous versions, some have issues.

 

And, although it's probably not the cause of your issue (because permission stuff happens on the client), what version of Retrospect engine and console (8.1.x) are you running?

 

Could you post a sample of the error messages?

 

Russ

[swk]

Thanks for your reply. Retrospect was installed and set up by our outside computer tech person and we have been having problems with this working correctly ever since our upgrades to both Snow Leopard and Retrospect.

 

We're running Retrospect Client 6.3.027 and Retrospect Vers. 8.1 (build 626). Snow Leopard is Mac OS 10.6.2.

 

Curiously, the first week we had Retrospect and Snow Leopard installed, the three of us in the office DID log out of our computers and the backup worked. For subsequent weeks when we've been backing up to Drive B or C we have needed to stay logged in for backup to work. Our tech has been back several times and finally deleted and reinstalled the Clients.

 

Also, a couple machines are getting the message "Warning: Copying Time Machine data is not supported." and we are not and never have used Time Machine. Any thoughts on this?

 

Apparently, I don't have privileges to attach a screen shot - I'll see if I can get admin permission for that and post...

 

This is the error message we're getting:

 

"Can't access volume admin on Kristy's iMac error -1101 (file/directory not found)"

 

The other machines are not backing up either, but do not have the -1101 error message. The machines are recognized, but there is only a Snapshot being taken and this is completed in a matter of minutes.

 

Thanks for your help!

[CallMeDave]

There's simply not enough information to really offer much other then guesses.

 

My first guess is that your "outside computer tech person" is/was unqualified to set this up. Not to say that s/he may not be smart and competent, but there's no documentation for Retrospect 8 and it's pretty hard for someone to be an expert in the program without paying a lot of dues up front.

 

"Can't access volume [color:purple]admin[/color] on Kristy's iMac..."

 

So you have a user named "admin" on this machine? Is there a /Users/admin/ directory?

 

Or is it some other directory named "admin?"

 

Both Russ and Steve mentioned FileVault, yet you do not confirm the use of encrypted home directories.

 

We'd need to know more about the Sources in your Media Set(s) and the setups of the Script(s) and machines.

 

Dave

[rhwalker]

Apparently, I don't have privileges to attach a screen shot - I'll see if I can get admin permission for that and post...

Forum Attachment Rules Change

 

You have to ask Robin to do his magic.

 

Russ

[swk]

Backup worked last night for all machines - because we did not log out of our machines.

 

In answer to your questions:

 

No, we are not using FileVault.

 

Yes, we do have a user named Admin on this machine. A very strange User name, but that's the way it was set up long ago.

 

When we log out, we're still getting the warning message about "Copying Time Machine not being supported" on only two of our machines.

 

I've just asked for permission to post screenshots of the log so I can post the -1101 error and Time Machine warning - stand by...

 

Thanks!

[rhwalker]

No, we are not using FileVault.

 

When we log out, we're still getting the warning message about "Copying Time Machine not being supported" on only two of our machines.

This is odd. Maybe it will be clear when the screen shots are posted.

 

As I understand it, all three client machines are iMacs, all three running Retrospect Client 6.3.027, all three on Mac OS (non server) 10.6.2 (Snow Leopard).

 

What is different between the two that have the problem (when logged out) and the one that doesn't have the problem?

 

How are they set up on the Retrospect (non-client) machine for backup sources? The same?

 

Are there any mounted non-boot local volumes on any of the client computers? Are these automounted?

 

Are there any mounted network shares on any of the client computers? Are these automounted?

 

Russ

[CallMeDave]

"Can't access volume admin on Kristy's iMac..."

 

What I don't know is if Retrospect will give this error if there is a Favorite Folder that it can't find (as it would have in Retrospect "Classic") or if it's really looking for a logical volume.

 

Seeing Sources and Scripts may help.

 

 

 

[rhwalker]

I wonder if there are network home directories ("NHD") or portable home directories ("PHD") that are being automounted when the users log in, with OD authentication to the Mini server.

 

Or, perhaps, is the user logged in to a local account on the one that works, and NHD / PHD on network accounts for the one that doesn't?

 

Sarak, what's your configuration?

 

Perhaps could you ssh in to the client computers from the Mini (or some other computer on the network, not one of these problematic clients, so that each client for the test doesn't have this test run from a GUI interface) and do a "mount" command in Terminal (no quotes) on each, both with the users logged in and also with them logged out?

 

Russ

[swk]

My tech was just on the phone with EMC. Apparently in a recent security update to Snow Leopard something involving the ports was changed that disallows Retrospect to run when users are logged out of their computers. At last - an answer!

 

So, as we're waiting for the next security update from Apple, our temporary fix will be to add a password-protected screen saver and not log out of our machines. This should do the trick!

[Maser]

So your clients have the firewall on? Or not?

 

I don't think I'm seeing this here -- and all my 10.6.2 machines are current.

 

But I don't have the firewall on for most of them...

[swk]

No - none of the clients have the firewall on.

[rhwalker]

That still doesn't explain why it works on one iMac and not on the other two.

 

Once again, sarak, what is your configuration? Any NHD or PHD or non-local accounts involved here?

 

Russ

[swk]

Can you tell me how I know what kind of accounts these are - NHD or PHD?

 

We are all connected by the ethernet.

[Maser]

FWIW -- I could *not* reproduce this.

 

I had a laptop here (10.6.2) that did not have the latest security update on it (has the current 6.3.028 client on it). Added the client via hostname (all our clients have static IP addresses).

 

I added the "Users" folder as a favorite folder and backed it up to a new media set.

 

Then I copied some additional data to the desktop.

 

Then I installed the security update -- which reboots the client computer -- and left the client computer at the login screen.

 

 

I ran a second backup and it backed up the data without issue.

 

 

 

So, I logged in to the client. Copied some more data to the desktop.

 

*logged out* of the client (did not reboot).

 

Ran a 3rd backup of this client.

 

No problems.

 

 

Something else has to be going on here...

 

 

EDIT: Whoops -- this client *does* have the firewall on. So it's not even that!

 

Edited January 29, 2010 by Guest

[Maser]

Can you tell me how I know what kind of accounts these are - NHD or PHD?

 

We are all connected by the ethernet.

 

 

 

You should be able to see this in the Accounts System Preference (IIRC). A non-local account says something different than a regular account does -- but I'm blanking on this. I haven't had a NHD set up on anything in over a year (and that was just to test something...)

[rhwalker]

Can you tell me how I know what kind of accounts these are - NHD or PHD?

 

We are all connected by the ethernet.

Yes, we are. But that has nothing to do with what kind of accounts these are.

 

I understood from your original post:

 

We are using Retrospect 8.1, and our Mac mini server,

that you are running Snow Leopard Mac OS [color:red]Server[/color] on your Mini. Perhaps I misunderstood. If you don't have a Mac OS Server in the mix, then it is highly unlikely that you have NHD, PHD, or non-local accounts.

 

Let's ask a different way. Did you set up LDAP / OD on a Mac OS Server to provide network account login?

 

Russ

[CallMeDave]

My tech was just on the phone with EMC. Apparently in a recent security update to Snow Leopard something involving the ports was changed that disallows Retrospect to run when users are logged out of their computers.

 

 

Bah. Not a chance.

[CallMeDave]

We're still missing some simple-to-provide and critically helpful (previously and repeatedly requested) information.

 

Since the error is "Can't access volume admin on Kristy's iMac..." then we know that the Engine is speaking to the Client enough to know that it can't see a particular Source volume. If it were a "port" communication issue the error would be very different.

 

So I'm back to my earlier question. We know "admin" is a user on Kristy's Mac (is it Kristy's account?). But we don't know if /Users/admin/ has been defined as a Favorite Folder. I could be wrong, but I have a Gut Feeling knowing the answer to that might help.

[rhwalker]

Well, again, that depends on whether there are Network Homes for a network user via OpenDirectory.

 

Here are the mounted volumes for a network user who also has some volumes checked for automounting:

 

lwmimac:~ admin$ mount

/dev/disk0s10 on / (local, journaled)

devfs on /dev (local)

fdesc on /dev (union)

on /.vol

automount -nsl [130] on /Network (automounted)

automount -fstab [148] on /automount/Servers (automounted)

automount -static [148] on /automount/static (automounted)

afp_003JsV2LnAPu001Eic06SdO0-1.2c00000e on /private/Network/Servers/ourserver.ourdomain.com/Volumes/WMW RAID/HomeDirectories (nodev, nosuid, automounted, mounted by lwmckenzie) { [color:red][color:red]the automounted Network Home Directory[/color][/color] }

afp_003JsV2LnAPu001Eic06SdO0-1.2c00000f on /Volumes/Cindy's In Box (nodev, nosuid, mounted by lwmckenzie) { [color:red]share automounted by user login[/color] }

afp_003JsV2LnAPu001Eic06SdO0-2.2c000010 on /Volumes/Larry's In Box (nodev, nosuid, mounted by lwmckenzie) { [color:red]share automounted by user login[/color] }

afp_003JsV2LnAPu001Eic06SdO0-3.2c000011 on /Volumes/Russ's In Box (nodev, nosuid, mounted by lwmckenzie) { [color:red]share automounted by user login[/color] }

afp_003JsV2LnAPu001Eic06SdO0-4.2c000012 on /Volumes/WMW Files (nodev, nosuid, mounted by lwmckenzie) { [color:red]share automounted by user login[/color] }

lwmimac:~ admin$

and now, here it is with the network user logged out:

 

lwmimac:~ admin$ mount

/dev/disk0s10 on / (local, journaled)

devfs on /dev (local)

fdesc on /dev (union)

on /.vol

automount -nsl [130] on /Network (automounted)

automount -fstab [148] on /automount/Servers (automounted)

automount -static [148] on /automount/static (automounted)

lwmimac:~ admin$

Now do you see why I kept asking those questions? And why is it no one ever answers the questions that were asked in order to provide help?

 

Russ

[CallMeDave]

why is it no one ever answers the questions that were asked in order to provide help?

 

Well, to be fair, the Original Poster simply doesn't know, as manifested by the"We are all connected by the ethernet" attempt to provide relevant information.

 

In reality the "outside computer tech person" who is apparently making his or her living doing this is the one who should be here asking questions and providing additional information when asked. And not on the client's dime, either. This should be the expertise brought to the customer before representing one's self as qualified.

 

User sarak is possibly an executive who has much more important things to do then try and figure this out, especially when s/he delegated this to a specialist.

 

JMHO

[tiffert]

I'll second the original poster's query. I just installed the trial version of Retrospect 8.1 (build 626) on a LAN comprised of 2 machines, each running OS X 10.6.2. On one of the machines, 10.6.2 was clean installed the same day, on the other it was clean installed in the last couple of weeks. The latter machine is running the Retrospect backup engine and console, the former is running Retrospect client 6.3.027. Each has OS X's firewall turned on. I have all the latest OS patches and updates installed on both machines as of 2/1/10.

 

As long as the client is logged in to a user account, backups work. But if I log out and return to the OS X login screen, Retrospect returns the following error:

 

Can't access volume XXXX on XXXX.local, error -1101 ( file/directory not found)

 

I can SSH into the "missing" volume on the client machine, however, so I know it is on the network.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Guest

[CallMeDave]

I know it is on the network

 

Well yes, I made that clear up-thread:

 

Since the error is "Can't access volume admin on Kristy's iMac..." then we know that the Engine is speaking to the Client enough to know that it can't see a particular Source volume. If it were a ... communication issue the error would be very different.

 

Each has OS X's firewall turned on

 

If you turn [color:purple]off[/color] the OS X firewall before putting the client machine to sleep does it make any difference? It would be nice to find out if that's a red herring...

 

Can't access volume XXXX on XXXX.local, error -1101 ( file/directory not found)

 

Ok, I understand why you wouldn't want the actual name of the volume to live out in the inter tubes, but could you please provide the _path_ to XXXX ?

 

And as was asked up-thread, what is the Source that's being used in the Script?

 

I'll second the original poster's query

 

Then it's really incumbent upon you to at least provide as many answers to the requests for additional information that may apply to your similar observations. We're flying blind here trying to help.

 

Dave

[Maser]

I'll second the original poster's query. I just installed the trial version of Retrospect 8.1 (build 626) on a LAN comprised of 2 machines, each running OS X 10.6.2. On one of the machines, 10.6.2 was clean installed the same day, on the other it was clean installed in the last couple of weeks. The latter machine is running the Retrospect backup engine and console, the former is running Retrospect client 6.3.027. Each has OS X's firewall turned on. I have all the latest OS patches and updates installed on both machines as of 2/1/10.

 

As long as the client is logged in to a user account, backups work. But if I log out and return to the OS X login screen, Retrospect returns the following error:

 

Can't access volume XXXX on XXXX.local, error -1101 ( file/directory not found)

 

I can SSH into the "missing" volume on the client machine, however, so I know it is on the network.

 

 

 

A couple of questions about this:

 

1) Are you using FileVault on the *client* machine?

 

2) Is the missing "volume" the entire hard disk? Or a specific Favorite Folder? If so, what is the path of the Favorite Folder?

 

 

I tried to reproduce this and could not -- except when I had FileVault turned on for my account.

 

However, my test client was not a "clean install" 10.6.2 -- but was an upgraded 10.5.x --> 10.6.0/.1/.2 box. And I'm running the 6.3.028 client...)