jperret Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I might suggest the following to see if it helps: 1) install the combo 10.5.8 updater OK. I have to install this update during the week-end. 2) *Reset* all the permissons and "propogate" them starting from the sharepoint down. Once you have the permissions reset again, then test it. Which set of permissions are ypu talking about ? The one which "doesn't work" ? Witch ACL permissions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jperret Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 you are seeing the opposite, right? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maser Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 The other thing I noted from my server (which seems like it might differ from yours)? The POSIX setting on yours implies that the "user" is changing from "leopard" to "diradmin"? Are you changing that manually? Or is that changing depending on which account you log in as? My "user" POSIX setting sticks to my "localadmin" account no matter which console account I log in with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jperret Posted August 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Are you changing that manually? Or is that changing depending on which account you log in as? /quote] No. I should try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maser Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 2) *Reset* all the permissons and "propogate" them starting from the sharepoint down. Once you have the permissions reset again' date=' then test it.[/quote'] Which set of permissions are ypu talking about ? The one which "doesn't work" ? Witch ACL permissions ? First I'd determine if the POSIX "user" is changing depending on which account you log into the server as. It should *not* change (AFAIK). If it is changing, that sounds like an OS bug that I've never seen (but doesn't happen here under 10.5.8 -- maybe it does under 10.5.6?) What might also be interesting to test at this point since you can't upgrade until the weekend is to *restore* the files (make *two* new, blank, favorite folders on your server and restore to them -- restore the first backup to one and the second backup to the other) and see if the folders *and files* have different permissions when you restore them. Restore both the first pass and the second pass and do an "ls -lae" on both restored folders (the final folder contents in your path). I'd be curious if it's saying the files have different "users" permissions on them -- which would explain the duplicate backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 consider also the possibility of propagating permissions being in play here. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maser Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Thought about that. But unless he is running some script that's repropogating permissions between backups, it shouldn't be happening like this. (That said -- back in the 10.4 server days, I used to have cron scripts that would repropogate permissions every couple of hours on some folders on my shares because they would get messed up depending on what clients did -- like dragging folders from one shared folder to another on the server...) I don't believe that's even necessary these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jperret Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 What might also be interesting to test at this point since you can't upgrade until the weekend is to *restore* the files (make *two* new, blank, favorite folders on your server and restore to them -- restore the first backup to one and the second backup to the other) and see if the folders *and files* have different permissions when you restore them. Restore both the first pass and the second pass and do an "ls -lae" on both restored folders (the final folder contents in your path). I'd be curious if it's saying the files have different "users" permissions on them -- which would explain the duplicate backup. No permissions change. It's definitely a problem with ACL permissions. If I remove these permissions, it works. But others users cannot write in a folder that I created. With ACL yes, but the backup duplicates... I'll try to update to 10.5.8 during the week-end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maser Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Let us know what you find out. (I'll be off-line next week, so I'm interested to know if 10.5.8 fixes your problem.) POSIX permissions should still allow users to write in a folder that you created -- they should actually (if I remember correctly) override ACL permissions. Just make sure that's set. What would be good to test (if you still have time today) would be something to test with your 10.5.6 and then 10.5.8 after you update: Make one new sharepoint with only a few files in it -- files with no non-English characters (ie, "aaaaa", "bbbb", etc...) And then toggle having your local admin account have ACL permissions on/off and see if that affects the backup. To me, it's more a question of -- are the *ACLs* causing the problem? Or is it something about the non-English characters that triggers ACL issues? You might be able to isolate this by just using english characters only ("test", "trythis", etc...) Both of which sound like OS problems (and which I can't see not running the French-language version) -- and which EMC might not be able to see, either in their testing lab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 POSIX permissions should still allow users to write in a folder that you created -- they should actually (if I remember correctly) override ACL permissions. Just make sure that's set. I don't think that is quite right. From the Apple File Services Admin manual : [color:blue]Rules of Precedence[/color] Mac OS X Server uses the following rules to control access to files and folders: Without ACEs, POSIX permissions apply. If a file or folder has no ACEs defined for it, Mac OS X Server applies standard POSIX permissions. With ACEs, order is important. If a file or folder has one or more ACEs defined for it, Mac OS X Server starts with the first ACE in the ACL and works its way down the list until the requested permission is satisfied or denied. The ACE order can be changed from the command line using the chmod command. Deny permissions override other permissions. When you add ACEs, Server Admin lists Deny permissions above Allow permissions because Deny permissions have precedence over Allow permissions. When evaluating permissions, if Mac OS X Server finds a Deny permission, it ignores remaining permissions the user has in the same ACL and applies the Deny permission. For example, if you add an ACE for the user Mei and enable her reading permissions and then add another ACE for a group in which Mei is a member and deny the group reading permissions, Server Admin reorders the permissions so that the Deny permission is above the Allow permission. The result is that Mac OS X Server applies the Deny permission for Mei’s group and ignores the Allow permission for Mei. Allow permissions are cumulative. When evaluating Allow permissions for a user in an ACL, Mac OS X Server defines the user’s permissions as the union of all permissions assigned to the user, including standard POSIX permissions. After evaluating ACEs, Mac OS X Server evaluates the standard POSIX permissions defined on the file or folder. Then, based on the evaluation of ACL and standard POSIX permissions, Mac OS X Server determines what type of access a user has to a shared file or folder. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maser Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 That could be. I thought (and maybe this was a 10.4 server thing) that for my *Windows* clients that were connecting to my server, they didn't care at all about the ACL settings, but did for the POSIX settings. It's been a while since I set this up though. What I have works now! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Remember, when "Windows" clients connect to your server, they probably are doing so via SMB, so the model can be different. We don't have any Windows clients, so I haven't tested how well the SMB permissions model matches the Mac OS X ACL and POSIX model. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maser Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 Right -- Macs always respected the ACL over AFP connections. SMB clients never really did (which is why I put in POSIX permissions as well.) Sort of off-topic here, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jperret Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 So... Updated to 10.5.8 and no changes. The backup still dupicates when ACL permissions are set. No duplication without ACL but inheritance of POSIX permissions doesn't work and so, someone else cannot write in a folder that I've created after the propagation of permissions. Files without special characters are OK. The problem remains only for files withs accents in their names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maser Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 So -- if you were to report this to EMC: A sharepoint of: /File Server/Decomptes finaux *with* ACLS, but with no accents in any files -- works as expected (no duplicates). but a sharepoint of: /File Server/Décomptes finaux *with ACLS* and accents in files and the folder name -- backs up duplicates? Right? To narrow it down: What if the *folder* has accents, but the *files* do not? Duplicate? And... What if the *folder* does not have accents, but the *files* do? Any difference? - Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jperret Posted August 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 I made the following test : - Created a share point - Created in this share point 4 folders with all 2 files in - 2 folders with accents, one with 2 accentued filenames, the other with 2 filenames without accents - 2 others without accents, one with 2 accentued filenames, the other with 2 filenames without accents I first tried with read and write POSIX permissions only, with propagation. Then, I tried with POSIX and ACL (for the same perretporta group than POSIX) permissions, with propagation. The result is thtat all the combinations are OK (3 files completed, then 0 files completed) except for the combination "folder with accents and files names with accents" (3 files completed, then 2 files completed) So, it seems that Retrospect 8.1 has a bug with this combination of foldername/filename. As it seems that I'm alone with this problem, is it due to the fact that I'm running a french Leopard server ? Thanks again for your help. Jacques Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maser Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 *this* is what you should report to EMC. You might want to create a new thread on this with just this post information (including the OS version of the server). And what version of the engine/console you are using and where the engine/console applications are installed. EMC may be able to reproduce it that way. It's quite possible it's due to the French Leopard Server -- but it could be an 8.1 issue (or a client issue). But I think the post above probably contains what EMC should be able to try to replicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobrl Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 I have the same probleme, I have create to folder (same) the only difference is that, in second folder I have put a "â" in the name, and I have create "hourly" script to backup, the first one is ok I have backup with nothing to backup, but the second one I have each hour a backup (all file with accent). I don't make modification in the file. Ludovic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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