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AdrenalineSeed

Why is my cartridge never named correctly

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The program is never happy with the name of the cartridge I put in.

 

I have them all labeled for what day of the week and what schedule they are for.

 

I always have to erase the tape or it will refuse to write new data to it, kinda makes automated backup useless.

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Do you do a "Recycle" backup with tape 1 in the drive? And it isn't recognized?

 

Does Retrospect say whay it isn't accepting the tape?

Do you get an error or warning when you manually erase the tape?

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I use recycle and have a mon, tues, wed, thu, tape. Fri is a full backup of which the recycle references.

 

It gives me a warning when I select to erase the tape about all data will be lost, its like its afraid to overwrite the data on the tape.

 

If the tape had important data on it, it wouldn't be in the machine, it would be in the off site collection where it goes the next morning....

 

I put the same mon tape in every monday though it seems to give it a different number each time, so it is never the number it is expecting. Same goes for all the other tapes.

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Retrospect doesn't just use the tape name for matching. So if you have more than one tape named "1-Monday", it has to be the correct one.

 

What does Retrospect say if you attempt an immediate backup to the Monday tape and you have the Monday tape in the drive?

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I put the same mon tape in every monday though it seems to give it a different number each time, so it is never the number it is expecting.

What is the name (number?) of the tape it is expecting? What is the name (number?) of the tape you put in the drive?

 

Sure you are doing a "Recycle" backup? Sure you don't have it as a "New Media" backup?

 

I use recycle and have a mon, tues, wed, thu, tape. Fri is a full backup of which the recycle references.

Please explain.

 

Do you have a different backup set destination for each of the five days? (the only way it can be done with your description)

 

Or do you have a single backup set destination for each of the five days, just inserting different tapes on each day? (the wrong way, will never work).

 

Please explain exactly what you want the program to do. It sounds like you really want five different backup set destinations, one for each day. Note that the recycle must be done for each backup set.

 

Russ

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I am sorry, I had it backwards:

 

I do a New Member mon - thurs, then a Recycle on Friday. They all use the same backup set, uh oh! that is my problem??

 

Anywho.. here is what I want it to do:

 

Friday it makes a backup of everything, this runs over the weekend because there is a ton of files. I put it in about 7 tapes @ 70GB each for this one.

 

Then comes Monday: I put in a single 70GB tape labeled Monday on the sticker, I want it to put only files that have changed.. docs, new database backups, etc.

 

Tuesday, I put in Tuesday's tape where it does the same.. etc.

 

When it comes to restoring, I would like to be able to get anything I need off of the Friday Recycle backup without needing the weekday ones, if I happen to have a week day one I would like to be able to check it for an updated version.

 

Then of course I have a Week1 and Week2 so that it alternates and we always have a full backup off site even on weekends.

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Ok, you are fighting the program.

 

I believe this is how to set it up to do what you want:

 

Make two backup sets: Week1, Week2, and schedule them for alternating weeks in the same backup script.

 

On Friday, do a "Recycle" backup to the appropriate backup set, then do a "New Member" backup to the appropriate tape on Monday-Thursday.

 

For some reason I don't fully grasp, you seem to want to use a new tape for each incremental day of Monday-Thursday. Most people would not do a "New Member" backup on each successive day, but instead would do a normal backup, in which case Retrospect would ask for the last member (tape) used, and would continue filling that member (tape) until a new tape was needed, whenever that occurred. But you can make it work your way by doing a "New Member" backup on Monday-Thursday.

 

See page 25 of the User's Guide:

Retrospect User's Guide

 

On Friday, Retrospect will clear the catalog, mark all members (tapes) in the backup set as erased / no data, and start erasing tapes of the right name as it needs them. The members (tapes) will be named:

1-Week1 (for Friday)

2-Week1 (for Friday)

3-Week1 (for Friday)

4-Week1 (for Friday)

5-Week1 (for Friday)

6-Week1 (for Friday)

7-Week1 (for Friday)

8-Week1 (for Monday)

9-Week1 (for Tuesday)

10-Week1 (for Wednesday)

11-Week1 (for Thursday)

 

(and similar for backup set Week2).

 

You need to understand Retrospect's paradigm, because it is different from other backup programs, and if you don't understand Retrospect's model of reality, you will forever be fighting the program and it won't do what you expect.

 

Under the hood, Retrospect does an initial "full" backup followed by "incrementals", but that is not the model it presents to the user.

 

Instead, Retrospect has a "backup set", which is a database holding the succession of backup sessions (files and metadata), and a "catalog" that lists each file's location in the backup set (pointers into the backup set database), and presents a "snapshot" that shows what was on the source at the time of the backup session.

 

The difference between Retrospect and other programs is seen at restore. With other programs, you restore the first "full" backup and then all successive "incrementals" up to the desired date, and you end up with the version of the file on that date.

 

With Retrospect, you choose files to restore from a particular "snapshot", and Retrospect figures out where the files are in the backup set and asks for the needed members (tapes) of the backup set. By default, only the latest snapshot is shown for restore, but you can "add snapshots" to the restore view to see what the state of the source was at a particular backup session, and Retrospect will use the catalog to build a "snapshot" view as it was on the requested date.

 

If you want to get a file as it was on Tuesday, you simply restore from Tuesday's "snapshot", and Retrospect figures out where the file is located (on what member/tape of the backup set), and asks you for the needed member.

 

Of course, you can also ask for Retrospect to show you files that were backed up in each session, and you can restore various versions of files using that search, but that's not the way that most people use the program, and it's not using the program for its strengths.

 

Clear? Does this help?

 

Russ

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One question that comes to mind is: How would I put the last tape that it backed up to in for Monday's backup if it needs to go offsite? Thats why I use a new tape every day....

 

It sounds like I have it setup exactly how you just explained, this is the way support had me do it. Here is what I think the problem is...

 

Say it is Wed 10-Week1 and the tape is not in the drive because I was not in the office, So I come in Thursday and I cancel wed's backup and put in the Thursday tape, now the computer should know that it is Thursday that night and name this tape 11-Week1 but instead it wants to name it 10-Week1 which is a horrible idea, now the whole thing is thrown off.

 

Another scenario would be where it takes 6 tapes instead of 7 to do the backup on Fridays, the size of our network is changing by large amounts from week to week.

 

I need the program to look at the computer clock and make sure it knows what day it is otherwise a systematic numbering system will never work.

 

As far as restoring goes: Does it keep all this snapshot stuff on the tapes themselves. If there is a fire or robbery I will be installing a fresh copy of the software and trying to recovery whatever I can from what tapes are in the off-site batch.

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One question that comes to mind is: How would I put the last tape that it backed up to in for Monday's backup if it needs to go offsite? Thats why I use a new tape every day....

What we do is to have alternating day backups, not alternating week. One backup set always stays in the autoloader; for the other, tapes are taken out as they fill.

 

Say it is Wed 10-Week1 and the tape is not in the drive because I was not in the office, So I come in Thursday and I cancel wed's backup and put in the Thursday tape, now the computer should know that it is Thursday that night and name this tape 11-Week1 but instead it wants to name it 10-Week1 which is a horrible idea, now the whole thing is thrown off.

By my understanding of your setup, you have one backup set offsite, and you take tapes from the other backup set offsite after each day's incremental.

 

The solution, then, would be, on Monday, to fill up your autoloader with the tapes for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and to remove each tape the following day after the backup. Then it doesn't matter whether you are there or not.

 

Regardless, with the "New Member" backup, Retrospect wants the next member in the set. If you skip a backup, well, then you are out of sequence. If you used each tape member until it filled, well, you wouldn't run into this issue.

 

Another scenario would be where it takes 6 tapes instead of 7 to do the backup on Fridays, the size of our network is changing by large amounts from week to week.

 

I need the program to look at the computer clock and make sure it knows what day it is otherwise a systematic numbering system will never work.

You are asking the program to do something it can't because it is trying to protect the data on each of your tapes. What you are asking the program to do is to dynamically rename the members in your scripts for each of your days depending on how many members were needed previously (or not needed). You are also asking for there to be a non-sequential member numbering, which can't happen unless you mark previously-written members as "missing".

 

You really are asking for a different backup set for each day of the week.

 

As far as restoring goes: Does it keep all this snapshot stuff on the tapes themselves.

Yes and no. The snapshot is kept with the catalog for the backup set. If you need an older snapshot than the most recent one, Retrospect can create those older snapshots by scanning the catalog from the start, figuring out what was on the drive at each session.

 

If the catalog becomes lost/damaged, then Retrospect can rebuild/recreate the catalog from the backup set members. But that can take a long time, because it has to go through all of the tapes.

 

If there is a fire or robbery I will be installing a fresh copy of the software and trying to recovery whatever I can from what tapes are in the off-site batch.

Yep. Been there, done that, and Retrospect saved everything, even though all computers were lost in the fire, thanks to our off-site backup tapes. See attached photo (my office was just to the left of the window that the fire department knocked out), showing how a fire destroyed our floor of our office building one Friday night. We were back up and running on Monday morning with new computers in a temporary location, no data lost.

 

Russ

 

Edited by Guest

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Wild picture.

 

I am going to try your way with a Normal backup and see how that works. I suppose what I really want is a backup set for each day that can cross communicate so that it is still incremental.. oh well.

Edited by Guest

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Hey, Im bumping this one cuz I got more questions. So I have been doing a normal backup and all week it asks for tape Week1-3 but I take that tape out on Monday because I want to get my weekend backup offsite. I don't want to have to go back a weeks worth of work if we lose all our files.

 

So it complains and I tell it to do a new member, so now I am right back where I was doing new members, and its even worse because it waits all night for me to come in in the morning and tell it to do a new member, and it STILL complains about the name of the tape not being correct.

 

Like it will ask for Week1-4 and it might be named Week1-5 from last week because there was more files last week.

 

Am I asking for to much? I really want to take the tapes out every day that it wrote files to so that we have minimal work lost. I also need it to only do incremental backups on weekdays because it will not work to do a full backup every day and its not even needed if I have a full one from the weekend.

 

If I create seperate backup sets it solves my first problem and breaks the second...

Edited by Guest

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Your problem statement is too confused to offer suggestions. You need to clearly state what your backup set names are, your tape members, what you have set up in your schedule for each day, and what you are doing with the members (removing when?). Then perhaps we can figure out what is happening wrong.

 

Russ

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Ok. I have 2 Backup Sets. Week1 and Week2.

I have 2 scripts.

 

Week1 Backup Set:

Week1-1, Week1-2, Week1-3, Week1-4, Week1-5, Week1-6, Week1-7.

 

Week2 Backup Set:

Same but Week2-1,2,3,4,5,6,7

 

One script uses the Week1 Backup set and does a Recycle backup on Friday which I use Week1-1, Week1-2, and Week1-3 for. The recycle has 3 tapes it can put data on, it may use 1 tape or it may use all 3, depending on the amount of data there is.

 

On Monday I take those tapes off site and put in Week1-4 for the Monday night Normal backup.

 

On Tuesday it complains that I did not have Week1-3 or maybe Week1-2 in the drive, one of the ones we took offsite. I tell it who cares write to Week1-4, thats the one I always put in on Mondays it should know by now.

 

On Tuesday I take Week1-4 (usually with nothing on it because it didn't do anything the night before) and put in Week1-5 and so on.

 

Every night it complains that the tape is not the one it wants.

 

Same thing for the Week2 script and backup set, We have alternate Weeks.

 

I Always put Week1-1,2,3 in on Fridays, and Week1-4 on Mondays, Week1-5 on Tuesday and so on, why Can't I tell the system to expect that?

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Now that you have explained what you are doing, the answer seems clear.

 

On Monday through Thursday, schedule a "New Member" backup. That will make Retrospect expect the next tape in the series rather than wanting to continue on the previously-unfilled tape.

 

See page 25 of the Users Guide for details.

Retrospect Windows Users Guide

 

That's exactly what I suggested previously, above.

 

Clear now?

 

Russ

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What happens is say on Friday it doesn't need to write to Week1-3 because it doesn't require the extra space. Then on Monday I put in Week1-4 because that tape is labeled "Monday" and it doesn't except it.

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You are asking the program to do something it can't. It needs the next tape in the sequence, and you aren't providing the tapes in sequence.

 

The underlying problem is that you are giving the tapes two names - a "hidden" name (day of week) that is not provided to Retrospect, and a tape member name that you are providing out of sequence.

 

Really, what you are asking for is the following:

 

To be able to throw any tape in, of any name, at any time. Even if the tape has valuable data on it that Retrospect is trying to preserve for you, take the tape anyway and overwrite it.

 

That's a prescription for disaster, and is contrary to the design of the program.

 

One alternative might be to buy a bulk tape eraser, erase each tape before you put it in so that Retrospect won't realize that you are overwriting a tape that it believes has data on it.

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