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Autoloader functions not enabled

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I just installed an HP Surestore 40x6 autoloader on my system. (I had been using a single DDS4 drive.) For some reason, Retrospect is not enabling the autoloader functions, as if it does not see the drive as an autoloader. Am I missing something?

 

Drive: HP Surestore 40x6 (Case label says model C5717C, Retrospect says C5713A which is listed as "Optimal" in the supported devices list) Drive ID: 2, loader ID: 5

 

SCSI Card: ATTO ExpressPCI UL5D with latest firmware

 

Retrospect Workgroup 6.1.138, Driver Update 6.1.13.101

 

Mac OS X 10.4.9

 

PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5

Edited by Guest
Corrected drive model number

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(1) why don't you try updating your RDU to the current one (RDU 6.1.14.101)? There are some known problems with RDU 6.1.13.101. Here is the version history with links to the downloads:

RDU version history

 

(2) Does the autoloader show up in Apple System Profiler?

 

(3) Exactly what "latest firmware" and ATTO driver (.kext) do you have?

 

Russ

 

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(1) Okay, I downloaded and tried RDU 6.1.14.101. No joy.

 

(2) Here's what System Profiler shows:

 

SCSI Parallel Domain 0:

 Initiator Identifier:	7

SCSI Target Device @ 5:

 Manufacturer:	HP
 Model:	C5713A
 Revision:	H312
 SCSI Target Identifier:	5
 SCSI Device Features:	Wide, Sync
 SCSI Initiator/Target Features:	Wide, Sync
 Peripheral Device Type:	1

SCSI Logical Unit @ 0:

 Manufacturer:	HP
 Model:	C5713A
 Revision:	H312
 SCSI Logical Unit Identifier:	0

 

(Note: The SCSI ID is different than my original message because I tried going back to the default ID's in HP's documentation.)

 

(3) Flash ROM version dated 2/18/08

Driver version 4.3.0

 

I started having trouble with the old drive about 2 weeks ago and updated the ATTO firmware and drivers then.

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could you post a screen shot of what you see in Configure > Devices

 

and

Configure > Devices, Device Status

 

Russ

Edited by Guest

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I'm currently running a long backup (using the drive in stacker mode), so I can only describe it at the moment.

 

The window displays a list of two drives, my G5's internal DVD burner and the new tape drive. Clicking the reveal triangle for both drives shows the same thing, a single entry for what is in the drive, normally "Empty".

 

If I insert a magazine in the tape drive, the display does not change. I have to select a tape then load it into the drive mechanism using the front panel before anything will show up in the slot.

 

In short, it looks just like it did when I was using the Sony SDT-11000 single tape drive.

 

Is this sufficient or will you still need a screen shot after the backup finishes? Does this board have a simple function for posting screen shots? Or do I need to upload it to my web site and post a link here?

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Ok, I'll show you mine, you show me yours. We've got an Exabyte VXA-2 1x10 PacketLoader (SCSI) attached to an ATTO UL4D on a Xserve G5. See attached screen shot.

 

Part of my confusion is that I see what appears to be a drive in the Apple System Profile report, but not the autoloader. Here's how ours looks:

    SCSI Parallel Domain 2:

     Initiator Identifier: 7

       SCSI Target Device @ 0:

         Manufacturer: EXABYTE
         Model: VXA 1x10 1U
         Revision: A110
         SCSI Target Identifier: 0
         SCSI Device Features: Wide, Sync
         SCSI Initiator/Target Features: Wide, Sync
         Peripheral Device Type: 8

           SCSI Logical Unit @ 0:

             Manufacturer: EXABYTE
             Model: VXA 1x10 1U
             Revision: A110
             SCSI Logical Unit Identifier: 0

       SCSI Target Device @ 1:

         Manufacturer: EXABYTE
         Model: VXA-2
         Revision: 2142
         SCSI Target Identifier: 1
         SCSI Device Features: Wide, Sync
         SCSI Initiator/Target Features: Wide, Sync
         Peripheral Device Type: 1

           SCSI Logical Unit @ 0:

             Manufacturer: EXABYTE
             Model: VXA-2
             Revision: 2142
             SCSI Logical Unit Identifier: 0

Note that, like you, we've got a drive as "Peripheral Device Type 1", but we've also got an autoloader as "Peripheral Device Type 8". Sure you did the hookup and jumpering right when you added your autoloader?

 

Does this board have a simple function for posting screen shots?

Yes, just click the "Reply" button on this post, then click the "Manage files" link to the right of the "File Attachments" field.

 

Russ

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Retrospect Workgroup 6.1.138, Driver Update 6.1.13.101

Ed, just so we aren't chasing a wild goose here, are you sure that you've got Retrospect [color:red]Workgroup[/color] and not Retrospect [color:red]Desktop[/color]?

 

See:

Retrospect product matrix

 

I don't know how to tell for an installed version - somehow it's embedded in the license code. That information should be in the "About" box for Retrospect, but isn't. Perhaps that is something that EMC might want to add for a future product enhancement (Retrospect Y or Z). But you might have the Desktop version (or a wrong license code for the box you have). I guess that someone from EMC support could tell you your version from your license code, but I wouldn't post the license code in the forums here.

 

Russ

Edited by Guest

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Ok, I'll show you mine, you show me yours. We've got an Exabyte VXA-2 1x10 PacketLoader (SCSI) attached to an ATTO UL4D on a Xserve G5. See attached screen shot.

 

Okay, I'll upload it as soon as I'm able to.

 

I can say that I don't see the loader as a distinct device in either the Configure -> Device window or in the Status window.

 

Note that, like you, we've got a drive as "Peripheral Device Type 1", but we've also got an autoloader as "Peripheral Device Type 8". Sure you did the hookup and jumpering right when you added your autoloader?

 

As far as I can tell. I've already done some experimenting with the SCSI ID's with no success. There is a set of jumper switches on the bottom of the drive. They're currently set to the default settings. The HP documentation only specifies which switch combination to use for particular OS's. But it doesn't list the Mac OS or what each switch means. So I've just made sure they're the default settings and left them alone.

 

The drive is the only device attached to the SCSI card. It is terminated. There isn't anything funky about the ports on the back, just the standard 2 SCSI ports to allow daisy chaining.

 

I've been doing some digging around on the HP forum. According to what I've read there, the loader is supposed to appear as LUN 1. The ATTO configuration tool shows that the setting for the SCSI Bus is supposed to allow LUNs 0 to 7.

 

Yes, just click the "Reply" button on this post, then click the "Manage files" link to the right of the "File Attachments" field.

 

Thanks. That will make it easier.

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I don't know how to tell for an installed version - somehow it's embedded in the license code.

 

I was wondering if the license code had gotten messed up somehow. According to my receipt, it is supposed to be Retrospect Workgroup.

 

The link you posted shows that Workgroup comes with 20 client licenses while Desktop comes with only 2. When I checked the license within Retrospect it showed 20 clients permitted, so I guess that does confirm that the license is a valid Workgroup license.

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You could have corrupt Retrospect preferences. You may want to remove the Retro.Config file in library/preferences/Retrospect and see if the problem goes away.

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Do you have access to another SCSI Card? Maybe try your card on a different Macintosh to see what happens.

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My best suggestion would be for someone (perhaps EMC support, if they have one) to post what the Apple System Profiler output looks like for this autoloader and drive (and to report how their "options" switches are set on the unit). I glanced at the QuickStart guide on the manufacturer's web site, and it's less than informative about what the switches do. I'm still not happy that both SCSI IDs aren't showing up in the Apple System Profiler output. If Apple System Profiler can't see the devices, there is no hope for Retrospect to see them.

 

Could you explain a bit how you installed the autoloader? Did you just purchase the autoloader and put your old drive in it, or did you purchase a drive/autoloder combination already combined?

 

Russ

Edited by Guest

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It's a single unit. (You can see HP's info on it here.)

 

There are two SCSI ID selector switches on the back, one labeled "SCSI Address" and one labeled "Autoloader Options". The autoloader options switch seems to be the SCSI ID for the loader portion of the unit, the equivalent of the Type 8 device that shows up on your system.

 

I'm still not happy that both SCSI IDs aren't showing up in the Apple System Profiler output. If Apple System Profiler can't see the devices, there is no hope for Retrospect to see them.

 

That makes sense. I've also been talking with ATTO to see if their card utilities can give any insight into why it's not showing up. Their last communications said that something had to be at ID 0 to be recognized. So now I have the loader ID at 0 and the SCSI address at 4. I'm still seeing only the drive (ID 4) in System Profiler and Retrospect.

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Some info from an HP Autoloader manual:

 

Step 1: Check the SCSI ID Check the autoloader’s SCSI ID on the SCSI ID switch on the rear panel (the number switch on the left). If necessary change it from the default of 5 by pressing the indented + or - buttons above and below the SCSI ID number. Use a ball-point pen or similar pointed object. To prevent particle contamination, do not use a pencil. <4 or 5 should be fine>

 

Step 2: Check the Option Switch Value

Check the option switch on the back of the autoloader (the number switch on the right). If connecting to a Sun workstation, change the

switch to 5. For any other system, the default setting of 7 is correct.

 

Step 3: Set the Configuration Switches (UNIX Systems Only) page 1-9 Check the UNIX configuration switches in the bottom of the autoloader. Change the switch settings if necessary.

 

This should definitely be working, so if it continues to fail, we'd want to look at a SCSI debug log (that may require contacting support).

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I did see the information in the manual. I can see the drive based on whatever SCSI ID it's set to. (Currently on 4, I've also tried 3, 5, and others.)

 

The Option switch has been tried at the default of 7, which is not supposed to work because that's the ID used by the ATTO card, 1 and currently 0 by recommendation of ATTO tech support.

 

The configuration switches on the bottom are set to their defaults. I really hate HP's documentation at this point because they base the switch recommendations on the OS and version, don't mention Mac and don't specify what each switch is for. I am wondering if one of these switch settings needs to be changed.

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More info:

 

Last night I learned that the "Autoloader Option" switch does not set a SCSI ID. It controls the responses given to the host computer. I've now set it back to 7 which is supposed to work with most computers.

 

The SCSI ID switch sets the ID for both the drive AND the loader. The drive appears as LUN 0 for that ID and the loader is supposed to show up as LUN 1 for the same ID. I've now set the SCSI ID to 0 because of ATTO's earlier suggestion.

 

I also found two support documents on HP's site that describe the same problem of the loader not being visible to the host computer. The only difference between the two is that they each deal with different versions of Suse Linux.

 

In both cases, the OS uses the SCSI command SCSI REPORT LUNS to discover the existence of the loader. At the time these documents were written (2004) that command was not implemented for this drive. I do have the latest firmware installed, but HP doesn't make the full firmware history available, so I don't know if they ever got this command implemented. The solution given in the documentation is to have the OS scan for available LUNs.

 

Could this be the cause? If Mac OS X uses the SCSI REPORT LUNS command and it was never implemented on this drive, then that would be why my machine can't see the loader. Is there a way to have Mac OS X scan for available LUNS?

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Ok, that makes more sense. Your earlier comments about the options switch didn't match what I had read on the HP site when investigating in my initial posts.

 

This is why I suggested having EMC support (or some other user) post the Apple System Profile seen for a working drive, and to report the settings of the options switch on such a unit.

 

If Retrospect does support this autoloader (which it seems to recognize as one of the supported units), then there should be a workaround in the RDU, and visibility in Apple System Profiler wouldn't be required.

 

I suggest that you take this up with EMC support and open a support case, and they might be able to report an RDU on which this drive works. It's possible that some recent RDU update caused support for this drive to break, but that reverting to some older RDU might bring back that functionality for this drive.

 

Russ

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More info:

 

I found that there is another backup software package named BRU which also supports autoloaders. The publisher of that package explicitly states that they do not support Mac OS 10.4.9 (the version I was on) and 10.4.10 due to bugs in the SCSI implementation. That lead to two more troubleshooting ideas:

 

1 - Upgrade to 10.4.11. This did not solve the issue. The loader still did not appear.

 

2 - Try an evaluation version of BRU to see if it could see the loader. Again. No joy.

 

The only thing left to try at this point (short of contacting EMI tech support which I can't do 'till Monday) was to move the ATTO card and the HP drive to my Windows XP machine. After installing the ATTO drivers and the configuration tool, the drive AND THE LOADER immediately appeared.

 

This now proves that the drive is working fine, as is the ATTO card and cable.

 

That leaves only the Mac OS or the functional equivalent of "You're a Mac? I'm not talking to you!" in HP's firmware. (Given their apparent antipathy towards the Mac platform, this doesn't seem so farfetched!)

 

I guess my next step is to try a clean install of Mac OS X on a spare drive and see what happens.

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I installed 10.4.3 on an external drive. (Oddly enough, the 10.4.11 updater refused to update older versions of 10.4 on ANY external drive attached to my machine.)

 

The drive is still showing up only as a single device. It really does seem like HP modified the firmware so it would refuse to work with a Mac. :(

 

BTW… I did some digging in the Apple Developer area. It seems that Mac OS X does use the SCSI REPORT LUNS command, but if that fails, it attempts a manual scan.

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Quote from the EMC Top Hardware Technician

 

This should definitely be working, so if it continues to fail, we'd want to look at a SCSI debug log (that may require contacting support).

 

 

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Our engineers reviewed the log and basically are saying:

 

I think the loader is broken, or the loader and SCSI card just aren't working properly together.

 

As far as Retrospect knows, it's a standalone tape drive. Nothing showing regarding a loader.

 

In the ASP report, it *appears* that only the tape drive shows up (LUN 0). There is no mention of a loader device at LUN 1 where there should be.

 

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