CAN not get Retrospect to work

[dakota]

I had stopped using Retrospect on my G5 when it refused to complete scanning with a -116 error (unknown). Found out this was a size check error, but have NO idea what that means. I decided to try it again on this new iMac - new computer, new drives - shouldn't be a problem, right? Wrong. Same thing happened. I uninstalled it, reinstalled, wiped the firewire drive, and tried again. Same thing happened. I have never received an answer to this problem, even on the Retrospect forum. I felt this was the way to go right now, until SuperDuper is again available. Can anyone tell me what the problem is here???? I am on a G5 iMac with 350 gig drive, 350 gig external firewire for backup. Thanks

[Mayoff]

What exactly does the operations log say for this error?

 

You are saying you get an identical error on the G5 and the iMac?

 

What is your backup device? Was it the same in both cases?

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

---

Same thing happened

 

---

 

- What, exactly, is happening?

 

- What is the exact complete error message?

 

- What steps are you taking that lead up to the error?

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

---

I have never received an answer to this problem, even on the Retrospect forum

 

---

 

You mean after you pointed out that you were attempting to Duplicate 125 GB of data to a 120 GB volume?

 

That pretty much killed the thread...

[dakota]

You mean after you pointed out that you were attempting to Duplicate 125 GB of data to a 120 GB volume?

 

 

NO,

I mean after I attempted to back up to a brand new 160 GB volume, and now,on my new iMac, trying to back up to a 320 GB volume. Error message is that scanning is incomplete, error -116 memSCErr Size Check failed. Backup device is a 320 GB LaCie firewire drive. Backup on the old Mac was a 160 GB Maxtor firewire drive. Error message the same on both computers, scanning stopping a short time after it starts to scan the backup drive. Have checked HD, and it's fine. Have repaired permissions. Apple tech had me to through a number of things in the terminal, no problems found.

 

Old thread may be killed, this one is very much alive.

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

---

after I attempted to back up to a brand new 160 GB volume

 

---

 

In your previous thread, you were not doing a Backup in Retrospect, but instead you were performing a Duplicate. They are vastly different operations in this program.

 

When getting/giving support online, it's _critical_ that original posts provide clear, detailed information about the problem being reported.

 

What we (seem to) know:

 

Source = internal iMac HD

Destination = FireWire attached HD

Error occurs when scanning Destination volume, after successfully scanning Source.

 

Note: the Destination for a Retrospect Duplicate is not a "Backup device." It is simply a volume.

 

- When the Duplicate is attempted, is the Destination Volume empty?

- How is the Destination Volume formatted?

 

-116 memSCErr is a Mac OS X system error, not a Retrospect error. Retrospect is simply passing this error back to the user.

[dakota]

 

Source = internal iMac HD

Destination = FireWire attached HD

Error occurs when scanning Destination volume, after successfully scanning Source.

 

Correct

 

 

 

 

Destination "volume" empty. Formatted GUID.

[dakota]

And yes - sorry about that - duplicate, not backup.

[rhwalker]

The configuration information seems lacking or muddled, and it's not clear to me which computer is being discussed in this thread, or what versions of OS and Retrospect are involved.

 

Quote:

---

I had stopped using Retrospect on my G5 ...

I decided to try it again on this new iMac - new computer, new drives ...

I am on a G5 iMac with 350 gig drive, 350 gig external firewire for backup.

 

---

The G5 iMac hasn't been "new" for quite a while, so this is confusing. Is the G5 iMac the original computer or the "new" (?) computer? Is the "new iMac" an Intel iMac?

 

What version of Mac OS was on the original G5?

What version of Mac OS is on the "new computer"?

What version of Retrospect was running on the original G5?

What version of Retrospect is running on the "new computer"?

Are you getting the same error on the "new computer" as on the original G5?

 

Quote:

---

I felt this was the way to go right now, until SuperDuper is again available.

 

---

SuperDuper 2.1.4 is available for Mac OS 10.4.x; it's just not ready for 10.5.x. Please explain what you mean by this.

 

If this thread is discussing a computer on which Mac OS 10.5.x is running, have you tried using Retrospect 6.1.138 and unchecking the ACL backup preference? See this KB article:

http://kb.dantz.com/article.asp?article=9576&p=2

 

Contrary to what is stated in the KB article, I believe that the issue discussed in the KB article may be an ACL issue caused by an Apple bug in the Universal Binary version of the OS, and that Intel / PPC architecture is a red herring. There was one Mac OS 10.4.x release path for PPC and a very different 10.4.x release path ("Universal Binary") for Intel, but the Universal Binary version could, with effort, be installed on PPC. It was the Universal Binary version that exhibited the problems discussed in this KB article. There is only a single Universal Binary release of 10.5.x.

 

Perhaps if we had some clear details about your configuration, and if you tried the suggestion above regarding disabling the ACL backup preference in Retrospect (so as to work around this bug, if that's what the issue is), you might have better luck.

 

Russ

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

---

Destination "volume" empty. Formatted GUID.

 

---

 

GUID is a partition scheme, not a format type.

 

 

Solving this mystery is going to require additional effort and input from you. You'll need to provide a detailed list of the steps that you are taking that results in this error. By detailed, I mean explain each button you press, each dialog you see, in the order that you press them and see them.

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

---

this is confusing. Is the G5 iMac the original computer or the "new" (?) computer? Is the "new iMac" an Intel iMac?

 

---

 

Russ, you is a genius!

 

Mac OS X 10.4 supports GUID partitioned disks for any processor type; but perhaps Retrospect has a problem with this?

 

If this is _not_ an Intel iMac, try partitioning the disk as Apple Partition Map, (and HFS+) and trying again.

 

 

Dave

[dakota]

Is the "new iMac" an Intel iMac?

Yes. That is why it is partitioned GUID. Sorry for the typo - not G5 iMac. Intel 24" 1.4 iMac.

 

Mac OS X 10.4 supports GUID partitioned disks for any processor type; but perhaps Retrospect has a problem with this?

Firewire on the G5 was partitioned "Apple". It was a Powermac

 

What version of Mac OS was on the original G5?

10.4 Tiger

 

What version of Mac OS is on the "new computer"?

10.5 Leopard

 

What version of Retrospect was running on the original G5?

Same as now - 6_1_138.

 

What version of Retrospect is running on the "new computer"

See above.

 

Are you getting the same error on the "new computer" as on the original G5?

SAME error.

 

The iMac is only a couple of months old.

 

You'll need to provide a detailed list of the steps that you are taking that results in this error. By detailed, I mean explain each button you press, each dialog you see, in the order that you press them and see them.

 

There is no detailed list. Clicked on duplicate and let it run. Message was what I have stated before. Quits with

Scanning incomplete" and an error -116 message (size check).

 

Is there still confusion here???

[rhwalker]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Is the "new iMac" an Intel iMac?

 

---

Yes. That is why it is partitioned GUID. Sorry for the typo - not G5 iMac. Intel 24" 1.4 iMac.

 

---

Ok, that changes everything and completely restates the problem.

 

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

What version of Mac OS was on the original G5?

 

---

10.4 Tiger

 

---

Again, what version of the Mac OS? 10.4.what ?

 

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

What version of Mac OS is on the "new computer"?

 

---

10.5 Leopard

 

---

Again, what version of the Mac OS? 10.5.what ?

 

These differences may not seem significant to you, but there are different Apple bugs that Retrospect tries to work around with each different version. And the bugs come and go, with variants, as each version is updated.

 

Quote:

---

If this thread is discussing a computer on which Mac OS 10.5.x is running, have you tried using Retrospect 6.1.138 and unchecking the ACL backup preference? See this KB article:

http://kb.dantz.com/article.asp?article=9576&p=2

 

if you tried the suggestion above regarding disabling the ACL backup preference in Retrospect (so as to work around this bug, if that's what the issue is), you might have better luck.

 

---

 

Still waiting for you to try this part and to provide the other missing information.

 

Russ

[dakota]

What version of Mac OS was on the original G5?

 

10.4.10

 

What version of Mac OS is on the "new computer"?

 

10.5.1

Using Retrospect 6.1.138 and have disabled ACL backup. Does not work.

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

---

There is no detailed list. Clicked on duplicate and let it run.

 

---

 

Sigh.

 

Click on: Immediate->Duplicate

 

If this is the first Duplicate, Retrospect will prompt the user for Source and Destination

(hint: Scripts->Option+Click on Scripts button to show the "hidden" scripts, which are the most recent Immediate operations performed. These "ghost" items can be forgotten from the list. )

 

If a Duplicate has already run, Source and Destination will be selected already.

Nothing will happen until you click "Duplicate."

 

- Is the Destination configured for "Replace Entire Disk" or "Replace Corresponding Files" ?

 

Click on "Duplicate."

 

It runs.

 

- Then what do you see? Do you see Retrospect scan the Source? That's a detail that could be added to the list.

 

- Instead of clicking on "Duplicate," click "Files Chosen." Does the error reveal itself here?

 

- Define a small folder on your Source as a Subvolume

- Create an empty folder on the Destination volume and define it as a Subvolume

- Use those as your Source and Destination for an Immediate Duplicate; does the error reveal itself?

 

- How is your Destination volume formatted?

[dakota]

Formatted Mac OS Extended (Journaled). One partition. Destination configured for "Replace entire disk". Source and destination chosen. Retrospect scans the source and then starts scanning the destination. After no more than a few minutes, it stops, and the message appears. Last log read:

 

∆ Retrospect version 6.1.138

launched at 1/13/2008 4:30 PM

+ Retrospect Driver Update, version 6.1.13.101

Error: Scanning incomplete, error -116 (unknown).

 

I will have to wait till my new drive arrives tomorrow to do as you suggest, since what I have done in the interim is to use the firewire disk as a Time Machine backup, and I will keep it that way. Will use the new drive for cloning the HD.

[rhwalker]

How much RAM is on the "old computer" (PPC G5) running Mac OS 10.4.10 ?

How much RAM is on the "new computer" (Intel iMac) running Mac OS 10.5.1 ?

Approximately how many files are on the source volumes for each computer's duplicate ?

Perchance did you turn on ACLs for the PPC G5? It's hard to do on MacOS non-server 10.4.x, but it can be done through Terminal incantations. I'm hoping the answer is no.

 

I understand that the destination device on the "new computer" is a 320 GB LaCie firewire drive (GPT).

I understand that the destination device on the "old computer" is a 160 GB Maxtor firewire drive (APM).

Correct?

Are there any other firewire devices on the firewire chain for either computer?

 

Russ

[dakota]

 

How much RAM is on the "old computer" (PPC G5) running Mac OS 10.4.10 ?

 

1 GB

How much RAM is on the "new computer" (Intel iMac) running Mac OS 10.5.1 ?

 

3 GB

Approximately how many files are on the source volumes for each computer's duplicate ?

 

1,500,000

 

 

Perchance did you turn on ACLs for the PPC G5? It's hard to do on MacOS non-server 10.4.x, but it can be done through Terminal incantations. I'm hoping the answer is no.

 

NO

 

I understand that the destination device on the "new computer" is a 320 GB LaCie firewire drive (GPT).

I understand that the destination device on the "old computer" is a 160 GB Maxtor firewire drive (APM).

Correct?

Are there any other firewire devices on the firewire chain for either computer?

 

Correct. HD itself on the old computer was 160 GB. Used the Maxtor 160, and a LaCie 120, both firewire Current iMac has the 320 LaCie plugged into the computer, and the 160 Maxtor (from the G5) connected to the LaCie. I use the Maxtor to dump extra stuff like installers. Also use it for .Mac backups of home folder, email, and bookmarks.

[rhwalker]

Ok, you've got enough RAM, and there aren't any odd things here.

 

Only commonality is that the Maxstor firewire drive has been connected in both setups. Shouldn't be an issue, but I'm not certain that the APM non-ACL drive is coexisting OK with the ACL-enabled Leopard drive (with GPT). Shouldn't be an issue, but I'm just pointing out that oddity. You might try things with that drive not connected.

 

And the number of files really isn't that large.

 

I'll have to think a bit about this.

 

Russ

[CallMeDave]

- Instead of clicking on "Duplicate," click "Files Chosen." Does the error reveal itself here?

 

- Define a small folder on your Source as a Subvolume

- Create an empty folder on the Destination volume and define it as a Subvolume

- Use those as your Source and Destination for an Immediate Duplicate; does the error reveal itself?

 

 

Or not.

 

 

 

 

 

Dave

[dakota]

Will let you know as soon as I get the new drive ready. Ordered a firewire 800 drive so I don't have to chain it. It will, therefore, be totally separate from the other two firewire 400 drives. Since it is a 500 GB drive (can't seem to find any 320 in stock anywhere, and really didn't need bigger), should I leave it as one partition, or partition it into a three and a two, and then try a duplicate on the larger partition?

[rhwalker]

Quote:

---

should I leave it as one partition, or partition it into a three and a two, and then try a duplicate on the larger partition?

 

---

Well, I'd suggest a wipe and repartition as a single partition, even if it comes that way, just to be sure you've got a GPT partition. Even if it has an APM partition, the layout of the partition map and MBR changed slightly (got larger) in preparation for Leopard, causing a bit of havoc for migrated drives (especially those of us with RAID). That way, you will know that you are starting with a good filesystem.

 

With modern filesystems (and HFS+ under MacOS 10.4 and 10.5 fall into this category), fragmentation is a non-issue, allocation is efficient, and it's best to have a large partition UNLESS you want to preserve a special partition for booting in case disaster happens (or in case you need to wipe one partition). On our Xserve, we have all OS System data on one volume (f/k/a/ partition) and user data, the mail store, and Software Update images on a second volume. That way, if/when we do migration to a major OS upgrade, we just wipe/install on the System volume, leaving user data intact.

 

You may want to split the new drive into one volume for duplicating and one for Time Machine.

 

I feel your pain with all of this testing. I know that it is time consuming. Been there, done that.

 

Russ

[dakota]

Okay, I give up. One step forward, ten back.

 

I got the new drive, wiped it, partitioned it into two - one 320 GB which is the size of the HD, and whatever was left over. Then I ran Retrospect. Imagine my surprise when it actually started to duplicate the drive. Didn't question why, just breathed a sigh of relief and amazement. Somewhere around 2 A.M., with about 700 plus files left to copy, it seemed to get stuck in a loop. It was repeatedly showing the same bunch of printing files being copied over and over. It did not stop, there was no message. After an hour or so, I just left it, figuring whatever problems there were would show up ion a log, assuming it ever did finish.

 

This morning, around 11 A.M., which was about twelve hours after the process started!, I noted that it had managed to get out of the loop, and read "Closing". There were three files left to copy, according to the progress bar. Three hours later, it was still stalled at that same place.

 

I finally quit out of Retrospect, read the log, which cited 346 execution errors, repaired permissions, checked the HD, restarted the computer, and tried again. This time it got as far as scanning both drives, and updating the privileges on the drive to be cloned. That window closed, and I waited for the window to open which would show the progress bar. Never happened. Two hours later, with the ball still spinning, I quit out of Retrospect (note it showed a crash after I quit out of the program listed as not responding), and tried again. Same thing.

 

I do not know why it even worked to begin with, the first time, since the conditions were no different than before - new drives, reinstalled software - the only difference was that this was attached via firewire 800, not 400, but that should have been immaterial. However, the error message was gone, and to all intents and purposes, it was working (so I thought).

 

I did make sure the ACLs were not included in the backup. I did a check on the drive itself, which showed no problems. I am out of ideas at this point. Yes, it would appear that all the files have been copied to the firewire drive, but I have no idea how valid they are, and obviously, I have a problem now with trying to run it again.

 

Carbon Copy Cloner, here I come???

 

 

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

---

I did make sure the ACLs were not included in the backup

 

---

 

I'll say it again; you are not doing a Retrospect Backup, you are doing a Duplicate.

 

Retrospect's greatest strengths, and the places where it does things that no other software can do, is in its backups.

 

In OS X, there are many solutions for duplicating one volume to another, including directly from Apple. And there are many solutions for updating an existing duplication to reflect the new state of the original drive.

 

Since you are not taking advantage of Retrospect's unique abilities, I would recommend that you try one of the other more modern products available to achieve what you're looking to achieve. Carbon Cloner, SuperDuper!, ASR, etc.

 

 

Dave

[rhwalker]

Quote:

---

Two hours later, with the ball still spinning, I quit out of Retrospect (note it showed a crash after I quit out of the program listed as not responding), and tried again.

 

---

There could be multiple problems interacting here. When you "force quit" (send a kill -9 signal to the process via Activity Monitor - which is what I suspect that you are doing when you say you "quit out of Retrospect"), Retrospect tends to leave its preferences in a corrupted state. Basically, you are causing a database program (Retrospect) to fall over while the database is inconsistent. So this corruption may be masking (or causing) your underlying issue(s).

 

I am in the same camp as David (CallMeDave) in that, because you are not doing backups, but instead seem to be doing duplicates, Retrospect is not the best tool for your job. But you may be able to get Retrospect to do what you want if you start with a clean set of preferences.

 

Try, with Retrospect quit, moving /Library/Preferences/Retrospect (the entire folder) to your desktop. That way, you can always move it back if this doesn't work, and Retrospect won't see that folder of preferences on your Desktop when it launches. You will have to re-enter your license code and any selectors, etc., that you have modified, bu† give that a go.

 

Russ