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Intel 10.5.1 retrospect network communication error

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I'm having 519 errors and I'm getting pretty frustrated.

As to be expected. These can be frustrating.

 

 

Now I can't even get a backup, and of course you can't return software....

Well, actually you can request a refund from EMC. They're a large corporation, and they don't want to have unhappy customers.

 

I've turned off screen savers and, I believe, all the energy saver options that might apply. The exception is putting the drive to sleep, but it shouldn't go to sleep when it is actively scanning or being backed up.

Does that mean that you have never tried configuring Energy Saver to not sleep the hard drive? Not even as a test?

 

IIRC, at the crossover between scanning and copying, Mac OS X can think that the machine has been idle and react accordingly (sleeping, spinning down, etc). Seems a very easy test to configure Energy Saver to stay alert without any exceptions.

 

Backup is to an external firewire drive connected to the minimac.

What Type of Backup Set are you using? Probably not related, but for completeness in your report it would help to note.

 

I've tried network connectivity via wireless, wired hub from Verizon FIOS, and wired NetGear hub with only the minimac and macbook connected.

 

These are important tests. It sounds as if you can reproduce the error reliably. Can you please describe more completely exactly when the error shows up? Always during Scan? Alway during Copy? Please be specific about exactly what you see.

 

When testing this way, it's important to keep track not only of what you change (different routers, etc) but what does _not_ change. So, for example (and for example only) if the cause of your network communication problems was a hardware issue with the Mac Mini's on-board ethernet, these tests would not directly isolate that. Is there any other network hardware that stays the same as you try different configurations? Are you using commercially manufactured patch/station cables?

 

I suppose I could try writing to DVD to see if it behaves any differently.

That would not be helpful in testing a client communication problem.

 

 

I hesitate to do that, though, since the 6.1 Express version I used to use on the minimac...

Woa, hold on. Weren't you talking about "the great old days" at the top of the post? Now I'm confused about what you used before, when it worked, when it stopped working, etc.

 

took like 40 minutes to erase each and every DVD even if it was already blank.

Erasable DVD media is a poor choice for Retrospect. There might have been a time when it might have been cost effective for some users, but if you buy in bulk today it will usually make more sense to buy good quality DVD+R media (you can do the break even plots for each media, and contrast it with the value of the time-overhead, etc).

 

Oh, and don't bother pointing me to the "help" page for 519 errors. I've seen it and tried the steps with no luck.

Ok. I won't. But it would be great if you were to include details about what you've already tried, so others don't waste their time suggesting something you've already done.

 

I'm very frustrated that I cannot call for support on a brand new product without throwing more good money after bad.

Well, here you're wrong. Retrospect includes free support for the first 30 days when you buy it new.

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I've turned off screen savers and, I believe, all the energy saver options that might apply. The exception is putting the drive to sleep, but it shouldn't go to sleep when it is actively scanning or being backed up.

Does that mean that you have never tried configuring Energy Saver to not sleep the hard drive? Not even as a test?

 

IIRC, at the crossover between scanning and copying, Mac OS X can think that the machine has been idle and react accordingly (sleeping, spinning down, etc). Seems a very easy test to configure Energy Saver to stay alert without any exceptions.

 

Yep, easy to try. I'll give it a shot.

 

Backup is to an external firewire drive connected to the minimac.

What Type of Backup Set are you using? Probably not related, but for completeness in your report it would help to note.

 

File Backup Set.

 

I've tried network connectivity via wireless, wired hub from Verizon FIOS, and wired NetGear hub with only the minimac and macbook connected.

 

These are important tests. It sounds as if you can reproduce the error reliably. Can you please describe more completely exactly when the error shows up? Always during Scan? Alway during Copy? Please be specific about exactly what you see.

 

I got the software a few days ago. I've tried 15+ backups and succeeded one time. Failures occur during scanning, backup, or comparison. The log shows basically what the others have: no indication of where it failed, just the plain old error 519 line.

 

I agree that this inconsistency looks like real network problems rather than software, but it's too dang touchy.

 

Oh, and one more thing. I have not been watching the screen during the entire run every time, but I would think I would catch the "Net Retry" at least once -- I am trying to pay attention. Is there a way to bump up the length of time it tries?

 

When testing this way, it's important to keep track not only of what you change (different routers, etc) but what does _not_ change. So, for example (and for example only) if the cause of your network communication problems was a hardware issue with the Mac Mini's on-board ethernet, these tests would not directly isolate that. Is there any other network hardware that stays the same as you try different configurations? Are you using commercially manufactured patch/station cables?

 

All the cables are commercial patch cables. I used one set with the Verizon router and a different set with the NetGear.

 

I suppose I could try writing to DVD to see if it behaves any differently.

That would not be helpful in testing a client communication problem.

 

I wasn't sure if the write speed would have anything to do with it.

 

I hesitate to do that, though, since the 6.1 Express version I used to use on the minimac...

Woa, hold on. Weren't you talking about "the great old days" at the top of the post? Now I'm confused about what you used before, when it worked, when it stopped working, etc.

 

The great old days were when I had a PowerMac 8100 with a DAT drive, backing up 3 or 4 machines at work. For the time it was fast, flexible, and had a nearly 100% backup and recovery record. I can't tell you the version, but if that machine was still alive I'd still be using it. I have been trying to find a backup solution as good as that for the last 5 years. I finally scraped up a spare $100 and was very excited to get the 2 client licenses in Desktop.

 

Retrospect Express 6.1 was what I was using on my minimac before. The DVD+RW behavior was frustrating but it worked reasonably well. Of course, this left the family iMac and my macbook unprotected.

 

Oh, and don't bother pointing me to the "help" page for 519 errors. I've seen it and tried the steps with no luck.

Ok. I won't. But it would be great if you were to include details about what you've already tried, so others don't waste their time suggesting something you've already done.

 

  • eliminate human error - check
  • scope - both computers, multiple versions, multiple network configurations
  • network integrity - I did what I could without buying new network hardware; simple one-router setup, no problems with other network applications (I know this doesn't prove anything)
  • Software conflicts, reboot - check
  • unnecessary activities - check
  • different times - check
  • disk corruption - fixed permissions on client and server, booted both from CD and repaired boot disk on client and server, repaired firewire drive containing backup file set on server
  • change ports - check
  • 3rd part ethernet card - not possible on server or client
  • change hub, switch, connectors, cable - check
  • remove SCSI devices - N/A
  • use a different server - not tried
  • clean reinstall of OS - not a realistic option
  • defragment - no good backup
  • ethernet crossover cable - not tried
  • firewall - check

 

From this thread, not the article:

  • tried the beta version
  • watched the retropds.xx daemons
  • tried subvolumes - failures on each of them

 

I'm very frustrated that I cannot call for support on a brand new product without throwing more good money after bad.

Well, here you're wrong. Retrospect includes free support for the first 30 days when you buy it new.

 

Well, then, I suggest the website make that fact a little more prominent. When I looked online, I kept getting sent to either the forum or the pay-as-you-go calls.

 

I'll be honest, I didn't expect a reply at all much less a quick and detailed one. I really want Retrospect to work. I think my high expectations coming in made the frustration that much worse.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated....

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ethernet crossover cable - not tried

tried subvolumes - failures on each of them

 

How small (in file count and/or in size on disc) is a representative defined Subvolume that results in a loss of communication?

 

Even though you've tried different routers, the easiest thing in the list to try is a single, known good cable between a machine running Retrospect and a machine running the Retrospect OS X Client software. Easy enough to configure both with non-routable IP addresses in the same subnet, then see if there's a difference.

 

With the goal of using what you have available to test what's there, I'd suggest installing Retrospect on one of the current client machines, hanging the FW drive off that machine, and attempting to backup the other current client machine. Take the Mini out of the equation entirely. So far, that machine is the one non-changing element in this whole ordeal.

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Customers who upgrade get 30 days of free technical support. Also all upgrades have a 30 day return policy.

 

Have you tried a crossover cable between the client backup backup computer?

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I was able to setup a Server Backup script and set it to be active every night. That seemed to alleviate all my 519 errors. I will try a regular backup script later to check if I still receive the "net retry" errors. I'm pretty sure the hidden files that I deleted earlier had nothing to do with the 519's.

Edited by Guest

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Have you tried a crossover cable between the client backup backup computer?

 

(too late to Edit my previous post, which looks to be a long quote...)

 

One nice thing about modern Apple Macintosh hardware is that the built-in ethernet ports are auto-sensing. You can connect a modern Mac to another computer with a single, straight-through cable _or_ a crossover cable.

 

It's a reasonable test to try, as well as the other test I suggested above.

 

 

Dave

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ethernet crossover cable - not tried

tried subvolumes - failures on each of them

 

How small (in file count and/or in size on disc) is a representative defined Subvolume that results in a loss of communication?

 

Even though you've tried different routers' date=' the easiest thing in the list to try is a single, known good cable between a machine running Retrospect and a machine running the Retrospect OS X Client software. Easy enough to configure both with non-routable IP addresses in the same subnet, then see if there's a difference.

 

With the goal of using what you have available to test what's there, I'd suggest installing Retrospect on one of the current client machines, hanging the FW drive off that machine, and attempting to backup the other current client machine. Take the Mini out of the equation entirely. So far, that machine is the one non-changing element in this whole ordeal.[/quote']

 

I saw very inconsistent behavior with subvolumes as well. The one that worked was a subvolume that had failed several times previously.

 

Most recent attempt: crossover from mac mini to macbook with hard drive sleeping disabled. 519 during scan. I wanted to try this because it was quick and easy before installing on the iMac.

 

Tonight I'll try making the iMac the server and backing up the MacBook. This takes the minimac out of the equation. If that fails, I'll just follow through all the steps I went through with the other configuration.

Edited by Guest
fixing broken nested quoting

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I made the iMac the server and got through a full backup of the MacBook (over wireless, no less) and the minimac the first time with no problem.

 

I guess I never would have thought that a machine several times faster than the old PM8100 would have problems being the backup server.

 

This solves the 519 problem. Now I just have to figure out how to convince my wife she needs this big bulky drive attached to her pretty iMac :)

 

I owe you an apology and a big thank you, so... Thank You!!!!

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It's not unusual for Retrospect to reveal problems with computer or network hardware. It's your digital canary in the virtual coal mine.

 

You might be able to get an inexpensive USB-Ethernet adapter to hang off of the Mini. If the problem is that machine's on-board ethernet (not proven, but possible based on your tests) it just might do the trick.

 

You'll need a software driver, which is available thanks to the brilliant Peter Sichel of Sustainable Softworks:

 

http://www.sustworks.com/site/news_usb_ethernet.html

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I have discovered a fix - at least temporary - to the scanning problem of my 10.5.x clients resulting in a 519 network error after an immediate or scripted backup attempt: You get a "Net Retry; Scanning: 1 folder 0 files" message in a window while it is attempting backup, after which (about 4 minutes later), you get a 519 error message (Network Communication failed). I discovered the fix is to shut down the 10.5.X client, then start up into Safe Boot Mode (hold the shift key down while starting up), log into an OS X user account while in Safe mode (I'm not sure if this is necessary), then shut down again, then boot up normally (without holding down the shift key). After this (but maybe not permanently) you will be able to backup the client without the Net Retry error. This has worked for me on 3 different 10.5.X clients that I have had trouble backing up since the start of the year, when I purchased/installed these new Leopard clients. One caveat: After fixing the problem using this method, I aborted an immediate backup after I saw it was scanning correctly, but then the Net Retry problem returned on that client, which I again fixed by rebooting that client to safe mode and then normal mode again. I realize that this may not be a permanent fix but it does seem to work consistently for me and may point to a more permanent solution if someone can find out what booting to the safe mode is doing that is fixing the issue, at least temporarily. I suggest those having similar problems (Stalling during client scan, Net Retry, 519 errors) try this fix and see if it works for you and then let us know. I've been away from this forum for a few months and didn't re-read all the posts in this thread, so maybe someone else already found a solution, but I just stumbled on this today and thought I should let others know...

 

Good Luck!

 

Tim Sachi

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Tim

 

At least in my case you're on to something. The machine was always giving me the resulting 519 after 1 folder and 0 files. Using your safeboot procedure I managed to get to almost 200,000 folders and 1,000,000+ files but then the same net retry and 519.

 

I posted much earlier in this thread about my MacBook Pro and after creating subvolumes and backing them up sucessfully the problems have abated but not vanished. The problem machine above is a MacPro that's only a few months old. I can backup up subvolumes but so far not the complete volume.

 

Using Workgroup with latest client and server versions. No problems on the Tiger clients on PPC.

 

This tread seems to have gone quiet - hope someone's still listening.

 

I have discovered a fix - at least temporary - to the scanning problem of my 10.5.x clients resulting in a 519 network error after an immediate or scripted backup attempt: You get a "Net Retry; Scanning: 1 folder 0 files" message in a window while it is attempting backup, after which (about 4 minutes later), you get a 519 error message (Network Communication failed). I discovered the fix is to shut down the 10.5.X client, then start up into Safe Boot Mode (hold the shift key down while starting up), log into an OS X user account while in Safe mode (I'm not sure if this is necessary), then shut down again, then boot up normally (without holding down the shift key). After this (but maybe not permanently) you will be able to backup the client without the Net Retry error. This has worked for me on 3 different 10.5.X clients that I have had trouble backing up since the start of the year, when I purchased/installed these new Leopard clients. One caveat: After fixing the problem using this method, I aborted an immediate backup after I saw it was scanning correctly, but then the Net Retry problem returned on that client, which I again fixed by rebooting that client to safe mode and then normal mode again. I realize that this may not be a permanent fix but it does seem to work consistently for me and may point to a more permanent solution if someone can find out what booting to the safe mode is doing that is fixing the issue, at least temporarily. I suggest those having similar problems (Stalling during client scan, Net Retry, 519 errors) try this fix and see if it works for you and then let us know. I've been away from this forum for a few months and didn't re-read all the posts in this thread, so maybe someone else already found a solution, but I just stumbled on this today and thought I should let others know...

 

Good Luck!

 

Tim Sachi

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Glad it worked for you! I found it is only temporary so you can't rely on it to schedule full backups or even totally complete an immediate backup as you've found. I now use subvolumes to backup all my leopard clients as it is fairly reliable. I just make sure everything on the client at the hard disk level is in folders that I define as subvolumes. I'm hoping they fix this issue eventually but I'm looking into other backup solutions. I've read lots of posts since the first of the year that mention upcoming upgrades that might fix these issues but haven't seen any actual upgrades come out - that concerns me. Yes, it appears this thread is all but dead which also concerns me. Have people solved this issue or have they just all given up, as I pretty much have? I just check this forum every month or so to see if there's any new info. Anyway, Good Luck!

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I've read lots of posts since the first of the year that mention upcoming upgrades that might fix these issues but haven't seen any actual upgrades come out

 

Um, there's an active beta testing program for the totally re-written Retrospect OS X Client software. And while it's not recommended for production environments, it seems quite evident that EMC is pushing ahead with development of a better product.

 

Dave

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I've read lots of posts since the first of the year that mention upcoming upgrades that might fix these issues but haven't seen any actual upgrades come out

 

Um, there's an active beta testing program for the totally re-written Retrospect OS X Client software. And while it's not recommended for production environments, it seems quite evident that EMC is pushing ahead with development of a better product.

 

Dave

I'm really glad EMC is pushing ahead. All I can say at this point is the new version can't happen soon enough. I'm feeling that the existing software isn't really suitable for a production environment either.

 

Just hope the wait isn't too long and the initial release is well sorted.

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Found it !

 

Today I had the same error again.

I've moved all files from a G5 using 10.5.3 to a new Imac using Apple utility and a firewire cable.

 

Re-install Retrosepect client 6.1.122,

 

and boom : NW com. error :devil:

 

As I said before, I removed using the terminal, 1 file and no more error ! :banana:

 

Here is the file name, quoted :

 

".com.apple.timemachine.supported (depuis l’ancien Mac)"

 

Good luck

 

Eric

 

May be you need to translate the last part of it's name.

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Downloaded and installed new version of Retro and client. This new client is version 6.2.229 and requires the use of Retrospect for Macintosh version 6.1.230.

 

So far, I happy to report it is working. One Leopard MacPro client that was giving me fits recently backed up without a hitch.

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I have also installed the new version (6.1.230) and upgraded the clients to 6.2.229 and so far so good! I am able to make full backups of the Leopard clients now without the network communication error, instead of backing them up subvolume by subvolume. I have not (yet) noticed clients turning themselves off. I am able to backup with a screen saver running on the server - I previously could only use the monitor's energy saver which wasn't very secure (no password protection). I actually successfully made it through an unattended backup of 20 computers on the network over the weekend - I can't recall when I last was able to do that!

 

This upgrade was none too soon - I had all but given up on Retrospect due to these issues; now I feel I should give it another chance!

 

I'm now looking at upgrading my external HDs. I currently have 2 Maxtor 250GBs that I've had for 5+ years but these are filling up fast now (recycle backup needed every month or two). I'm thinking 1TB or 2TB drives - any suggestions for reliable brands/sizes? I've had pretty good luck with the Maxtors- one flaked out after a year or two but Maxtor replaced it without hassle.

 

Thanks!

 

Tim Sachi

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