Error 204 & OS 9.2.2

[DrMike]

On my beige G3 running OS 9.2.2, Express 4.3 (2.4.103) has been failing 100% of the time with Error 204 (device busy) when writing to a SCSI CD burner. The KB says this is a software conflict or hardware problem. The CD burner (Yahama CRW8424S firmware 1.0j) seems fine; Toast (4.1.3) can burn CDs with no problem. But Express runs for 90 minutes or so and then bombs w/ 204 somewhere in the middle of CDRW disc 3 or 4. I've tried using different CDRW discs, so all that's left is a software problem. (At least if Express would bomb right away I wouldn't waste 90 minutes before having to start over!)

 

 

 

Exactly what extensions do I need to use? I've tried nearly every combination of enabling/disabling the following:

 

Apple Auth Support 112 thru 115

 

Apple SDAP Auth Support 1.0 and 1.0.1

 

Apple Disk Burner Extension 1.0.2

 

Retro SDAP Support 1.1.3 and 1.2

 

Retro.Startup 4.3

 

Toast CD Reader 4.1.2

 

 

 

Express *used* to work fine; however since the last successful backup, I've made two changes: 1) adding an external Fireware hard drive and 2) upgrading from 9.2.1 to 9.2.2.

 

 

 

The firewire drive is backed up correctly so I don't think it's a firewire problem. The 204 error always happens when Express is backing up the G3's internal hard drive. I've also checked both disks w/ Norton's and Disk First Aid. They report no problems.

 

 

 

So what do I have to do to fix Express?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mayoff]

The error 204 is an error being reported by the CD burner itself.

 

 

 

1) Try a different brand of CD media. TDK media works well.

 

2) Try the drive as the only external SCSI device

 

3) Change SCSI cable and terminator

 

4) Update the firmware on the SCSI card to the latest version

 

5) Try the drive on another Macintosh

[DrMike]

Thanks for the reply,

 

 

 

1) I haven't tried TDK media, but I don't think the discs are the problem. When I erase all the CDRWs from the previous Express failure, I reuse them in a different order. So if the backup fails on Disc #4, I make sure that Disc #4 is the new Disc #1 on the next attempt. Without exception, the disc that failed the last time works fine in the next attempt. And as I said in my first posting, Toast burns to these same discs with no problems.

 

2) I only have one external SCSI device, the CD burner itself. But I also have an internal ZIP drive on the same SCSI bus. I've tried changing the SCSI ID of the Yamaha burner, but it didn't make any difference.

 

3) I've been using the same SCSI cable for a long time with no problems so I don't think it's the cable either; as I said before, Toast works fine with this setup and the first couple of Express discs burn fine as well. If the cable was flaky, I'd expect to lose some Toast discs as well.

 

4) I'm using the built-in Apple SCSI port on the beige G3; so there isn't any firmware to update.

 

5) I don't have another Mac.

 

 

 

The reason that I asked about software conflicts in my first posting was this info from Dantz's Knowledge Base (searching on Error 204):

 

 

 

"Like all 200- series errors, error 204 is always generated by the backup device and is most often caused by: 1. Third-party software conflicts...Check to see what software or drivers might be present on your system that could attempt to communicate with or control the backup device."

 

 

 

Is there anything else that I can try? Has anyone had good luck backing up with a Yahama CRW8424S and OS 9.2.2?

 

 

 

 

[BobMeador]

I'm having the same problem, all of a sudden. Error 204. Happens any time from 20 megs into a backup to 500 megs into a backup, and so far is happening always on the first CDR in a series. Happens both on a new backup and on an update to an existing backup.

 

 

 

I only have one Mac and one SCSI device attached. Same cable, never any problems before yesterday. The problem occurs with both TDK and Office Depot media. I removed anything I could think of that could lead to this problem, including the only recently installed programs I have - Virex and TechTracker. All Toast extensions removed. No problems burning with Toast.

 

 

 

Incidentally, I'm using OS 9.2.2 also. Maybe that's the problem. I suppose I will have to try restarting off another partition with a non-9.2.2 OS. But meanwhile, any other suggestions would be super.

 

 

 

Oh - my burner is a Yamaha CDRW6416SX. Trouble-free until today.

[BobMeador]

Here's an update: I tried everything I could think of - checked cable and termination on the CDR drive (Yamaha CRW6416SX), restarted with "OS 9.2.2 Base" (plus Dantz extensions), turned off the CD authoring and disc burning extensions, talked to Yamaha. And still I get the damn Error 204 messages. I have wasted about a dozen CDRs trying to troubleshoot this problem.

 

 

 

I finally updated the firmware on the CDR and I've so far got one successful backup, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

 

 

Here's what really bugs me: Ok, Dantz doesn't seem to have a solution to this problem. I think it's an incompatibility with 9.2.2 (and other messages in this form tend to bear out a problem with 9.2.2). So I'd love to contact tech support and talk to them but they want to CHARGE me $40!!! That's almost as much as the software cost! They want me to pay them to give them bug-fix info about their software that they'd normally be paying a software tester for. What a rip off! I understand the pain of tech support having to put up with people who don't read manuals or look at FAQs on the web, but people, if you can't build it right the first time then DON'T make ME pay more money for you to get it right.

 

 

 

Sorry for the rant - I know tech support is expensive but either make it work or help we users fix it so it does. Reminds me of so many companies nowadays that expend all their effort getting you to buy their great new thing, but abandon you once you do ("we've got their money now - let's let 'em rot on hold"). Just like the phone company.

[JimHarper3]

I am having the same type of problem with Retrospect 4.3 and 9.2.2, I have a beige G3 which was upgraded to a G4, with an external APS CD-R (Sony) drive. The CD-R is on a SCSI chain with an 18Gb External HD--which is what I back up. I have been using this for a long time for backups on an old PowerTower machine and then started getting 206 and 208 (or 209) errors. I switched the drives to the G3/G4 and got the same errors, figured it was a bad CD-R drive and bought a LaCie Firewire/USB CD-RW (Teac CD-W524E). At first, I could not get Retrospect to back up to it (it turns out to be "Unqualified"--whatever that means), but then Retrospect worked with the old CD-R drive (much slower, but at least it got backed up). That worked for a week or two, and now I am back to getting 206 errors again--on both drives (somehow the Teac is playing nice now)--and have ended up trashing 10-12 CDs trying to make this work.

 

 

 

I would agree with the last post, that if Dantz is going to not monitor these forums and help find solutions to these problems, then they shouldn't be charging us $40 for tech support. Much more of this and people will start telling all their friends that Retrospect is not the software it use to be, and find something more stable to back up your system with.

[Mayoff]

re: Dantz posting to the forum:

 

 

 

Preparing for the Mac OS X/Retrospect 5.0 release has been very time consuming for everyone at Dantz, preventing us from spending as much time in the forum as we would like. I personally have posted 100's of messages to the forum, and others at Dantz will be spending more time in the forum starting next week.

 

 

 

This forum offers community-based support for Retrospect and other Dantz products. This is not an official means of contacting Dantz support. If you have an urgent question or would like to discuss your Retrospect problems with a Dantz technical support representative, please go to:

 

 

 

http://www.dantz.com/index.php3?SCREEN=how_to_contact_cs_and_ts

 

 

[BobMeador]

First off I'd like to say thank you to Dantz for working so hard on getting OSX support ready. I have long thought Retrospect was a fine product, and for the most part very solid, and now that I have just purchased an OSX-running G4 I'm glad Retrospect will be supporting it soon.

 

 

 

I also appreciate the expense of providing customer support and the need to charge a fee. I am certain many of the calls/emails you receive could have been solved by a visit to the website, and so it becomes frustrating that users don't take that first step of checking the site before calling.

 

 

 

On the other hand, there are a smaller number of very experienced users (among which I humbly consider myself) who almost never find the answers to their problems on company websites. This is because we know how to troubleshoot, strip down extensions, download driver updates and otherwise eliminate all the obvious culprits in any problem situation. In fact I find we often know as much or more about a product than many of the tech support people we speak to. I can think of two instances in the past month - phone calls to Intuit and to HP - where no tech was able to resolve my problem. Both of these calls cost money. And in both cases, those companies could have used the information I provided to help improve their tech support offerings, bug fixes and whatnot.

 

 

 

Companies have realized, especially given the current economic climate, that they must cut costs or raise revenues to survive. They cut costs by setting up convoluted automated phone answering systems and hiding the means of access to a live responder. And they raise revenues by charging for technical support when their product is buggy or too hard for a user to understand. Rather than build the price of support into a product, they price it low to sell it quickly, then seem to abandon the user once the sale is made.

 

 

 

I want to make clear that I am NOT fingerpointing specifically at Dantz here. I have been using Retrospect products for many years and like the company and the people who work there. But I would like to suggest a policy change for Dantz' (and any company's) fee support program. If a user calls in with a new problem, or one you don't have a solution for, don't charge them for support. You and the customer can work the problem out together, everyone is wiser, Dantz gets free research info and ends up with a better product, and all the other users benefit.

 

 

 

It's one way corporations can put a human face on their operations and interactions with the public.