Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Hello all, I've been jumping through hoops for about a month now, trying to get Retrospect to continue seeing both of our tape drives that it saw up until a few months ago. We have two drives hooked up, one for backing up art files automatically(Sony Autoloader TSL A300C), and another for pulling files when we need to restore a backed-up file(Sony SDX S300C). We were using Retrospect 4.3 on an OS9 system, and we started having issues with backups not happening, so we decided to upgrade to 6.1. After upgrading, the Autoloader stopped showing up, and the other unit wouldn't register a tape being changed unless we shut down the program and restarted. We have now switched from an Adaptec card to An ATTO card, and the S300C now at least has the tape change show up, but still won't detect the autoloader. Our last attempt at a working solution is to have 1 computer with the backup drive, and one with the restore drive, but the only computer that shows the autoloader is the original G3 that has issues backing up in the first place, but we figured that 'maybe' if we installed a legacy version of Retrospect on that machine, the drive would show up. Long story long, does anyone know where I can download an old version of Retrospect, OR where I can find the magic driver file that is on the OLD machine that isn't showing up on the NEW machine? Sorry if this post is confusing, but this is really, really, really getting frustrating, and we are running out of things to try! Thanks, Mike Wells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayoff Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 all available downloads are at http://www.emcinsignia.com/updates 5.1 works with OS 9 and will work with the 6.1 license code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 The problem seems to be that the newer versions have more issues, while the older versions still work with the older adaptec cards and have less issues with some of the drives(As weird as this all sounds...). Thanks anyway, tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Quote: while the older versions still work with the older adaptec cards No, Adaptec dropped support of Mac OS X after 10.3.9, and has not provided a driver that works with Mac OS 10.4.x. Mac OS 10.4 is a very different animal under the hood. Retrospect just uses standard API calls to the OS. The problem is between the Adaptec cards and Mac OS 10.4.x. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 OK, here's the basic rundown: OS9, system works(Retrospect 4.1, I believe), having issues with the backups occuring correctly, we decide to upgrade, go from a G3 to a G4. Run into the Adaptec problems, finally upgrade to an ATTO card, autoloader still not seen, so we decide to revert one machine back to OS9 and the previous config that seemed to work. We still have the original issues with the backups, so we want a clean install, but can't find our old version of Retrospect. Al we need is a solution that works, so retrograding our Retrospect version is our last attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeDave Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Quote: OK, here's the basic rundown: OS9, system works(Retrospect 4.1, I believe), having issues with the backups occuring correctly, we decide to upgrade, go from a G3 to a G4.... Uh, aren't you leaving out the small fact that you changed from one operating system (Mac OS 9) to another, radically different operating system??? OS X had SCSI issues from day one; it's not unusual that hardware configurations that worked with an OS from almost a decade ago might have some compatibility problems with the OS shipping today. > the S300C now at least has the tape change show up, but still won't detect the autoloader Not all license versions of the product support autoloaders; what level of Retrospect do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Ah, now it's clear what you are trying to do. The older versions are here: Retrospect archived versions The Sony TSL-A300C autoloader is shown as being supported: Sony TSL-A300C The Sony SDX-300C (sic - not S300C) is shown as being supported: Sony SDX-300C I've never had an issue with our autoloader on our ATTO card. Is the autoloader being seen in Apple System Profiler? Have you tried updating firmware for the autoloader? Have you tried running the Sony Tape Tool utility to poke about on the Autoloader and see what it reports? Sony Tape Tool Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Gonna answer two at once here... Dave: We have tried to get the system to work on BOTH OS9 and OSX. We now have 1 computer(with OS9 and Retrospect 4.1) that recognizes BOTH drives, and has some minor problem that causes backups to no longer work, hence the need for an upgrade or reinstall. We have 1 computer (with OS9 and Retrospect 5.1) that is NOT recognizing the Autoloader, shows as 'No Devices'. We ALSO have 1 computer(with OSX and Retrospect 6.1) that does not recognize the Autoloader either. What we need to do is either get an old version of Retrospect or figure out WHICH driver file is on the old computer that is NOT on the other OS9 machine. So in short, no, I'm not leaving out the fact that I changed from one operating system to another, radically different operating syatem, I thought I had been saying all of this all along. Russ: The autoloader DOES ahow up in system profiler, and it shows up in the 'device status' part of Retrospect, but not as an available device. As for the firmware, I updated it, and it said everything was hunky-dory... Kinda weird issue, but it seems like alot of people have an issue with the aotuloaders. Unfortunately, I can't update the firmware on the ATTO card without jumping thru some hoops, apparently, thanks to Apple.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Quote: Unfortunately, I can't update the firmware on the ATTO card without jumping thru some hoops, apparently, thanks to Apple.... don't understand the issue here. We have no trouble updating the firmware on our ATTO UL4D, and I've done it a couple of times. Details are on ATTO's web site. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Russ, forgot to answer your full question... The Retrospect downloads you point to don't have the desktop program, just the client and updates. We used the Tape Tool, and everything worked fine, but I can no longer find the firmware for the A300C, just the A400C, and that gives us an error.... Thanks for the suggestions so far, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderii Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 hi russ I work with mike to answer your question the ATTO card we got is an Apple proprietary card so we can't flash it with ATTO's utilities, we found some ways to get past it and are working on being able to update it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Russ, here's the issue we've run into with the ATTO card: http://www.os9forever.com/SCSICard.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Ok, it's clear now that you have an APPLE rebranded SCSI card, not an ATTO card. It would have helped speed this process along if you had provided complete information in the beginning. We have an ATTO UL4D and have never had a problem with it in our Xserve G5. The Xserve G5 came with an Apple Dual Channel SCSI card (really an LSI Logic 22320), and that card never worked with Retrospect. Interestingly, the problem that we had was that it often wouldn't show the tape drive or autoloader after reboot. We replaced it with the ATTO UL4D and everything worked fine. I can't help you with a card that was originally an Apple rebranded ATTO card that you put ATTO firmware into. No information has been provided as to what ATTO card it is. ATTO sells many cards. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Well, we BOUGHT an ATTO card, it saya ATTO all over the card, including directly branded onto the circuit board of the card AND the chip, so I'm not sure how I was supposed to know that it wasn't truly ATTO, as far as I understand, it seems that Apple has just added their own firmwware to the ATTO card, and I can fix this by flashing it from a PC. Sorry if you feel that I somehow misled you, but this was the card recommended by someone here on these boards a few weeks ago. The card says it is an ATTO Express PCI PSC card, nothing else on it. I had told the person who ordered it to get an ATTO UL45, as far as I know, they ordered the correct card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Whatever, I'm not going to argue. ATTO's site shows that there is an obsolete card that they once sold called an ATTO Express PCI PSC (single-channel Ultra/wide SCSI). That's not an ATTO UL4S. The drivers listed on the ATTO site for that card only seem to go up to Mac OS 10.3.0. I have never seen the "ATTO Express PCI PSC" recommended on these boards in the past two years. It would be interesting if you could point us to a post recommending that card. The person you told to order an ATTO UL4S may have tried to pick something up on eBay or the like, but they certainly didn't get an ATTO UL4S. Good luck. Perhaps you will be able to get it to work. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Well, I wasn't trying to start an argument, I was merely asking for help. I represented what we had, what we have tried, and what we were going to try next. I listed the card as I thought it to be, based on what I had asked toi have ordered, and what I had been told was ordered. I'm not sure how I became the bad guy in this, but thanks for taking the time to try and help anyway. Maybe it's time to figure out a new backup scheme, considering how many issues we are having with Retrospect, but that's not for me to decide anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Quote: I'm not sure how I became the bad guy in this, but thanks for taking the time to try and help anyway. I'm sorry that you feel that you have become cast as a "bad guy" - I wasn't trying to do that, and I wasn't trying to argue with you; I was only trying to help, and, in order to do so, it helps if complete information is provided. In the absence of information, I assumed, apparently wrongly, that your recent purchase of an "ATTO card" was of one that is currently being sold by ATTO. Here is their current product guide for SCSI HBA cards: ATTO SCSI Product Guide Quote: Maybe it's time to figure out a new backup scheme, considering how many issues we are having with Retrospect, but that's not for me to decide anyway... Whatever product you choose, you will have to start with supported hardware. All of the major backup software vendors recommend ATTO UL4D/UL4S/UL5D/UL5DLP for SCSI on Macs running 10.4.x. It's really the only choice. As a comment, the Sony AIT drive / autoloader that you mention are about five years old and aren't the current versions that Sony is selling. That may also be part of the problem, and that part of the problem will persist with other backup software. See also Dave's inquiry asking about what version of Retrospect software you have. Some versions do not support tape autoloaders. Regards, and good luck. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 That's ok... We'll try and figure out how to make this work. Like I said, I would really love to figure out what's configured on the first machine that makes it recognize the autoloader(And that's even with an old adaptec card!), so that possibly we could copy a file or setting to make it work on the new machine. Oh well, we may be ordering a new SCSI card, and then everything would(hopefully) be fixed.... Thanks again for the suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 There's not a file that could be copied from the Retrospect 4.1 machine to any of the later versions that would cause the autoloader to be recognized. Retrospect 4.1 (and, I believe, 5) was sold in a number of versions, and some of the versions didn't include tape autoloader support; the version information is encoded in the license number and also in some additional files that are specific to the particular version. If the first machine (OS 9 and Retrospect 4.1) recognizes the autoloader, then you've obviously got the right Retrospect 4.1 version for that. We went through the sequence of Retrospect 2.0 through 4.1, 4.3 on Mac OS 7, 8, and 9 with ASIP. Never used Retrospect 5 because it was so buggy, but Retrospect 6.0 and 6.1 have been OK except for a couple of persisting bugs (doesn't respect tape member names of prenamed, barcoded, erased tapes when looking for new media; and retrorun file becomes corrupted about once a month) on Mac OS 10.4.4 through 10.4.10 once we installed the ATTO UL4D and junked the Apple BTO dual-channel SCSI card (rebranded LSI Logic 22320). Our autoloader/tape drive is an Exabyte VXA-2 1x10 1u PacketLoader (SCSI) attached to the ATTO UL4D in our Xserve G5. I've never used your particular tape drive/autoloader, although we did have a Sony SDT-7000 DDS-2 DAT on our old ASIP server (Mac OS 8.6 and 9) with Retrospect 2.0 through 4.3, and that Sony SDT-7000 worked fine on the Xserve G5 under Mac OS 10.4 and Retrospect 6 for a short while until it was replaced by the Exabyte. We did see a symptom caused by Retrospect when the Exabyte was on the same SCSI channel as a SCSI disk that was part of a SoftRAID RAID 1 mirror - occasionally Retrospect would hang the server when it launched and did its device scan. It was a rare occurrence, very frustrating, and was only fixed when we moved the Exabyte onto its own channel of the ATTO UL4D. It is my belief that Retrospect did something that caused a SCSI bus reset during the device scan, and that this caused an interrupt to be dropped or a transfer complete bit to be cleared for the disk drive, causing the system to hang down in the kernel in a spin loop. I do not believe that this bug has ever been fixed by EMC. We tried to get it resolved under our Retrospect support contract, but, in the end, the only thing that worked was for me to move the tape drive to its own SCSI channel on the ATTO UL4D, which caused the demise of the Sony SDT-7000 which had a SCSI-1 interface, thus preventing us from being able to read our DAT tapes back to 1992. If we had an emergency we could pull the Exabyte off that SCSI channel, hook up the SDT-7000, retrieve the DAT data, then put the Exabyte back on its own channel. Good luck, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallMeDave Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Quote: Like I said, I would really love to figure out what's configured on the first machine that makes it recognize the autoloader And like Russ and I have both said, autoloader support in versions of Retrospect from 5.0.x and beyond is provided by the level of license number entered into the License Manager window. Versions of Retrospect before 5.0.x used an additional file (Advance Driver Access, I think it was called) to provide higher level of support. That file is no longer used. I hate to sound argumentative here, but the question has been asked multiple times which level of Retrospect product you have, but no answer has yet been posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 <>"I hate to sound argumentative here, but the question has been asked multiple times which level of Retrospect product you have, but no answer has yet been posted.<> I hate to sound argumentative, but I HAVE mentioned 3 different versions we are trying to get to work. From my posts: "We were using Retrospect 4.3 on an OS9 system..." "We have 1 computer (with OS9 and Retrospect 5.1)..." "We ALSO have 1 computer(with OSX and Retrospect 6.1)..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Quote: From my posts: "We were using Retrospect 4.3 on an OS9 system..." "We have 1 computer (with OS9 and Retrospect 5.1)..." "We ALSO have 1 computer(with OSX and Retrospect 6.1)..." Mike, I think you misunderstand what Dave is asking; he's not trying to be argumentative. We know you have these version numbers (well, not quite - as a minor nit, you have never said "Retrospect 4.3 on an OS9 system"; you instead have twice said that it's Retrospect 4.1 on the OS9 system, but that's not important). Dave's request is for the LEVEL of the product, and his link is to the comparison chart: Retrospect product comparison chart As both Dave and I have politely tried to point out if you carefully re-read our posts, autoloader support in version 5.x and 6.x is provided through the license key that is entered. It's the same "version" of Retrospect, but a different "level" (Desktop, Workgroup, Server). In Retrospect 4.x, purchase of a higher level gave you the additional "Advanced Driver Access" file to install, which enabled autoloader support. Your problem simply may be that you've got the wrong level (type) of Retrospect product that doesn't enable autoloader support. We are just trying to help you solve your problem. Note that Retrospect DESKTOP does not support autoloaders; Retrospect WORKGROUP is required for autoloader and library support. Again, see the comparison chart link that Dave provided: Retrospect product comparison chart Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1969 Posted July 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 <>"As both Dave and I have politely tried to point out if you carefully re-read our posts, autoloader support in version 5.x and 6.x is provided through the license key that is entered. It's the same "version" of Retrospect, but a different "level" (Desktop, Workgroup, Server). In Retrospect 4.x, purchase of a higher level gave you the additional "Advanced Driver Access" file to install, which enabled autoloader support."<> There, that makes a little more sense. Sorry, but that's not how the questions were coming across. So what Retrospect is say9ing is that if we want the same level of product that we had before, we're going to have to spend 5x as much.... Oh well, I guess it doesn't really surprise me. I'm gonna have to bump this one up the line and see what they want to do about it. As I see it, we need this backup system, but I don't know what they'll want to spend. Oh well, thanks for the help, this keeps us from trying to reinstall the software in a million different configuratios to see if we can get it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhwalker Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Quote: So what Retrospect is say9ing is that if we want the same level of product that we had before, we're going to have to spend 5x as much.... Here's what I see at PC Connection's online store right now: Mac Retrospect 6 Desktop DVD edition (no docs) $79.73 (the user manual can be downloaded in PDF format from the EMC Knowledge Base) Mac Retrospect 6 Desktop DVD with docs $92.95 Mac Retrospect 6 Workgroup DVD with docs $359.95 Mac Retrospect 6 Workgroup Upgrade DVD with docs $169.95 If you've got an earlier version, which you seem to have, you might to be able to take advantage of the upgrade price. EMC sales might also be able to provide an upgrade price from the Desktop version, which I suspect you have, to the Workgroup version, which is what you seem to need. I'd give them a call. We really aren't talking about that much money when you consider how much of your time has been spent on this, and also when you consider the value of your data. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.