Backing up user accounts

[philq]

I THOUGHT I had Retrospect set up to backup the user directories for my family members. When I lost the drive and tried to restore, I found that Retrospect had only backed up the publicly viewable files (public directory and such)! Essentially all the user files were lost! I realize now I should have been more diligent in inspecting the contents of the backup file but I still can't figure out how to backup user files without logging in specifically as each user. (I'm not sure how I would do this in any case.)

 

Hopefully I'm missing something obvious! Thanks for any help you can share!

[rhwalker]

No, you aren't missing anything obvious that I can tell, but you haven't provided us with enough information to help you.

 

Normally, Retrospect runs as "root", which enables it to read all files. It isn't necessary to log in as any user. It's possible that you did something odd during the installation so that the setuid bit (or the owner) isn't properly set where it should be.

 

Additionally, you may have used some odd selector that didn't select the user files. Or your user files may be on some other volume than the one you backed up. etc., etc. There are many more things that are possible.

 

Could you provide a bit more information?

Version of Retrospect, RDU, hardware configuration, how you did the backups and how you did the restore, whether you used any selectors on the backup or on the restore, etc.

 

Are you aware of the special tricks that you have to do when doing a restore to preserve permissions and UIDs?

 

And what leads you to believe that only the publicly viewable files were backed up?

 

Could you please execute the following two commands in Terminal (with your window opened up wide) and post the output:

 

Code:

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ls -l /Library/StartupItems/RetroRun/RetroRun

ps axlwww | fgrep Retro

---

I suggest that you copy and paste each of these commands into Terminal so that you get them right. That's a "pipe" symbol between the "axlwww" and "fgrep" in the second command. The other vertical bars are lower-case "L" characters.

 

Here is sample output:

 

Code:

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mail:~ admin$ ls -l /Library/StartupItems/RetroRun/RetroRun

-rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1382932 Jun 24 16:43 /Library/StartupItems/RetroRun/RetroRun

mail:~ admin$ ps axlwww | fgrep Retro

0 18368 1 0 31 0 27792 464 - Ss ?? 0:00.19 /Applications/Retrospect 6.1/Retrospect/Contents/MacOS/RetroRunSL.app/Contents/MacOS/RetroRunSL -psn_0_262145

0 19250 1 0 47 0 112048 10360 - S ?? 0:00.67 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Support/LaunchCFMApp /Applications/Retrospect 6.1/Retrospect/Contents/MacOS/AuthenticateUser.app/Contents/MacOS/../../../Retrospect

501 19251 18360 0 46 0 93676 10924 - S ?? 0:00.17 /Library/Preferences/Retrospect/Retrospect Event Handler -psn_0_2228225

0 19258 1 0 31 0 28576 404 - Ss ?? 0:00.00 /Library/StartupItems/RetroRun/RetroRun

501 19267 19169 0 31 0 27808 4 - R+ p0 0:00.00 fgrep Retro

mail:~ admin$

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The first command shows the owner and permissions for the RetroRun process, and the "0" as the first character of the various lines of the ps output shows that these Retrospect processes are running as root, with permission to do anything (including reading all files). Those processes running as UID 501 are running as the first-created admin user.

 

Your problem might be with the backup or it might be with how you did the restore. We don't have any information that would enable us to help you figure out what happened.

 

Oh, and by the way, you really need to test things before putting a backup strategy into production.

 

Russ

[philq]

OK, I believe I logged in as an administrator (I don't believe I set a master "root" password).

 

The only selector was "All Files Except Cache Files"

Options are "Verification on", "Data Compression" and "Don't backup FileVault sparseimages"

 

Running Retrospect Backup 6.1.126 with 3 clients (this issue only involves one of the clients). I used the UI (Retrospect Directory) to do an immediate "Retore". (I have an automated script to perform the backups periodically.) Both machines are G4 Macs (the "server" is a mirror door and the client is an eMac ).

 

I'm not aware of any special tricks.

 

After I performed the restore, I opened the backup file and confirmed that the only items in the backup were in the public directory (other directories were empty).

 

Here's the output from the commands you requested:

 

[Gandalf:~] dad% ls -l /Library/StartupItems/RetroRun/RetroRun

-rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1382932 Jul 1 19:06 /Library/StartupItems/RetroRun/RetroRun

[Gandalf:~] dad% ps axlwww | fgrep Retro

0 220 1 0 31 0 27796 876 - Ss ?? 0:05.68 /Applications/Utilities/Retrospect 6.1/Retrospect/Contents/MacOS/RetroRunSL.app/Contents/MacOS/RetroRunSL -psn_0_524289

0 223 1 0 46 0 129248 12180 - S ?? 4:37.14 /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Support/LaunchCFMApp /Applications/Utilities/Retrospect 6.1/Retrospect/Contents/MacOS/Retrospect

0 492 1 0 31 0 28580 452 - Ss ?? 0:13.21 /Library/StartupItems/RetroRun/RetroRun

501 4319 4311 0 31 0 18052 240 - R+ p1 0:00.00 fgrep Retro

 

And yes I should have tested...lesson learned for the nth time ;-).

Thanks for taking the time to work through the details!

 

- Phil

[rhwalker]

Quote:

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OK, I believe I logged in as an administrator (I don't believe I set a master "root" password).

 

---

Not necessary even to have an enabled root login.

 

Quote:

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The only selector was "All Files Except Cache Files"

Options are "Verification on", "Data Compression" and "Don't backup FileVault sparseimages"

 

---

Ah. Maybe we are on to something. Does the problematic client/user have "FileVault" encryption enabled for their home directories? That could be the issue.

 

Quote:

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Running Retrospect Backup 6.1.126 with 3 clients (this issue only involves one of the clients). I used the UI (Retrospect Directory) to do an immediate "Retore". (I have an automated script to perform the backups periodically.) Both machines are G4 Macs (the "server" is a mirror door and the client is an eMac).

 

---

Still don't have any Mac OS version info on the Retrospect machine or on the clients. Please provide.

This is new information that client machines are involved. In that case, the important UIDs are on the clients. Ok, on the problematic client, let's try a similar thing in terminal (with the window opened up wide):

 

Code:

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rhwimac:~ rhwalker$ ps axlwww | fgrep Retro

0 198 1 0 31 0 48548 5172 - S ?? 14:46.36 /Applications/Retrospect Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

501 8857 8854 0 31 0 18052 380 - R+ p1 0:00.01 fgrep Retro

rhwimac:~ rhwalker$

---

Is the UID (first character) for the pitond process (the Retrospect client) showing as 0 (root) so that user permissions aren't an issue for Retrospect ?

 

Quote:

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I'm not aware of any special tricks.

 

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Ah. Well, other than repeating the mantra "Boole and Babbage" as you use Retrospect, empty folders are only restored correctly if you restore an entire disk (or subvolume). Don't ask me why, it annoys me too. It's unclear where the home directories were located. On the Retrospect server? On the client computers? You don't mention whether Mac OS Server is in the mix, or only Mac OS (non-server). I'll assume that you are not running Mac OS Server with portable home directories or network home directories, because that could introduce an additional complexity. Let me know if you have Mac OS X Server.

 

Quote:

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After I performed the restore, I opened the backup file and confirmed that the only items in the backup were in the public directory (other directories were empty).

 

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Ok. That sitll doesn't tell us whether the files are in your backup. Only tells us that they aren't in the restore.

 

Set up for an Immediate Restore from your backup set, most recent snapshot for the problematic client, then click the button to look at the selected files. See whether the home directory and its files are in that mix (but don't actually do the restore). Likewise, set up an Immediate Backup for that client, just as your script does, click the button to look at the selected files. See whether the home directory and its files are in that mix.

 

Quote:

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Here's the output from the commands you requested:

 

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Your output is good. Things are running as they should. It's not an installation or permissions problem. Retrospect on the server is fine. Need to see info for the client, as requested above.

 

russ

[twickland]

Quote:

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I THOUGHT I had Retrospect set up to backup the user directories for my family members

 

---

How were you trying to do this? Did you define the Users directory as a subvolume and use that as the source? Did you define subvolumes for individual users' home directories? Or did you use a selector?

 

If you used a selector (or selection criteria in the backup script itself), what exactly did your selector say?

[philq]

No "FileVault" encryption enabled.

 

All systems were running the latest 10.4 at the time. I am NOT running Mac OS Server, I was referring to the Retrospect host computer.

 

These home "user" directories were on the client computer. Since the drive was wiped there's no telling what the state was at the time of the backup, only the restore. (I can provide that if it's still helpful.)

 

When I browse the backup set's contents I see all the user directories but they only have the "Public" and "Sites" directories (except for my directory on that machine which has all the directories...desktop, documents etc.).

 

And yes, I defined the Users directory as a subvolume and used that as the source. The only selector I ever messed with was to exclude cache files.

 

A glimmer of light but I'm still not too hopeful :-|

 

- Phil

[rhwalker]

Quote:

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And yes, I defined the Users directory as a subvolume and used that as the source.

 

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Ok, but we still don't know whether something has changed (machine name, disk name, etc.) that would prevent the subvolume from being seen during backup.

 

For the second time, I request that you please perform the following test and let us know the results:

 

Quote:

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Set up for an Immediate Restore from your backup set, most recent snapshot for the problematic client, then click the button to look at the selected files. See whether the home directory and its files are in that mix (but don't actually do the restore). Likewise, set up an Immediate Backup for that client, just as your script does, click the button to look at the selected files. See whether the home directory and its files are in that mix.

 

---

That will let us know what is seen at the time of a backup.

 

Russ

[philq]

When I do an immediate restore I get to choose "Restore an entire disk", "Restore files from a backup" and "Search for files and folders". Assuming I choose "Restore files from a backup" (or "Restore an entire disk"), I see the source snapshot but I see no way to view the selected files. The client drive was wiped (clean install) after I failed to restore so I'll have to set that up again if that's what you need. I have other client machines that should exhibit the same problem, would it make more sense to look at them?˙

[rhwalker]

Quote:

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Assuming I choose "Restore files from a backup" (or "Restore an entire disk"), I see the source snapshot but I see no way to view the selected files.

 

---

You have to go all the way through making the choices, but just don't start the restore.

Specifically, select "restore files from a backup", select the backup set, select the snapshot, click OK, select a destination (doesn't matter what you choose, you are not going to do the restore), retrieve files and folders, click OK, Retrospect will then chew on things for a long time as it analyzes the backup set ("Matching..."), and eventually a window will appear ("Restore from Backup"). click the "Files Chosen" button, you will get the usual "Marking files for restore" window. Peruse the list of files, see if the files are there. That is the information regarding the files in the backup snapshot. don't do the restore, just look. Close the window.

 

Now, do a similar thing for an Immediate backup. Choose as source exactly what you use for your scripted backup. Choose a destination. Click the Selecting button, click the "fewer choices" button, choose the same selector you use for your backups, click the Preview button, see if the files in the user's folder are selected.

 

I don't know how to spell it out in any more detail.

 

Russ

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

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These home "user" directories were on the client computer. Since the drive was wiped there's no telling what the state was at the time of the backup, only the restore. (I can provide that if it's still helpful.)

 

__snip__

 

And yes, I defined the Users directory as a subvolume and used that as the source. The only selector I ever messed with was to exclude cache files.

 

---

 

I'm having a problem reading this thread, as the text is not wrapping horizontally as it should (anyone else seeing this?), and it annoys me to have to scroll left and right (I'm gonna _hate_ the new Leopard Finder!). But a couple of things stand out so far about the above.

 

Please confirm that when you use the term "client" above, you mean that these machines are running Retrospect OS X Client software, and that you are connecting to and accessing that client software from within Retrospect. This would confirm that you are _not_ simply using Personal File Sharing to access these machines via Apple Filesharing Protocol (AFP).

 

 

 

> When I browse the backup set's contents I see all the user directories but they only have

> the "Public" and "Sites" directories (except for my directory on that machine which has all

> the directories...desktop, documents etc.).

 

If you are doing this via

Reports->Contents->YourBackupSet->YourCatalog->Browse

then it won't make any difference to follow Russ' preflight browsing instructions; you're going to see the same thing. And if you're not seeing the files you expect, then those files aren't in the Snapshot.

 

If the files aren't on the Snapshot as you expect them to be, then it's likely you did something wrong in your Backup. Knowing more about how you configured the backup might yield a clue as to what went wrong.

 

Dave

[rhwalker]

Quote:

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I'm having a problem reading this thread, as the text is not wrapping horizontally as it should (anyone else seeing this?)

 

---

Yes. I think it's an artifact of the "code" section I posted above to show expected output from ps. Sorry.

 

Quote:

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If the files aren't on the Snapshot as you expect them to be, then it's likely you did something wrong in your Backup.

 

---

We don't know whether he knew how to open up the little triangles to view folder contents in the backup. All that he reported was that he saw certain folders.

 

That's why I tried to get the poster to do the "Immediate Backup" preflight - so we could see what Retrospect was preparing to back up. I have no way to know how he set up the subvolumes, or whether he altered the selectors, etc. But I hoped that his report might provide us some clues, and, if he also would try the "Immediate Backup" preflight with no selector chosen, we might have a clue what he did. I was also trying to walk the poster through new parts of Retrospect with which he might be unfamiliar.

 

I agree that there is confusion over the use of the word "client". No Retrospect client version information has been provided.

 

Russ

[philq]

Just set up an immediate backup of on of my client machines and I see all the files (and folders) except the ones that would be owned by other users. That is I see the system and applications and even the user folders but in the user folder I only see the public and shared directories and contents (no Desktop or Documents). At least I'm getting consistent results ;-). I'm going to be off-line for a week. I really appreciate all the help and I hope I can pick up again to figure this out when I return!

 

- Phil

[rhwalker]

Quote:

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Just set up an immediate backup of on of my client machines and I see all the files (and folders) except the ones that would be owned by other users. That is I see the system and applications and even the user folders but in the user folder I only see the public and shared directories and contents (no Desktop or Documents).

 

---

And you see this even if no selector is used for the immediate backup preflight, such that all files will be chosen?

 

As for still-unanswered questions that would provide information we need to help you:

 

Once again, I ask: What version of the Retrospect client is on each of the client machines?

 

Also, we still have never received any information from you whether the Retrospect client ("pitond") is running as root.

 

Once again, I ask that you provide us with the results of this command's output on the problematic client, in terminal (with the window opened up wide - here is sample output):

 

Code:

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rhwimac:~ rhwalker$ ps axlwww | fgrep Retro

0 198 1 0 31 0 48548 5172 - S ?? 14:46.36 /Applications/Retrospect Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

501 8857 8854 0 31 0 18052 380 - R+ p1 0:00.01 fgrep Retro

rhwimac:~ rhwalker$

---

For the second time, is the UID (first character) for the pitond process (the Retrospect client) showing as 0 (root) so that user permissions aren't an issue for Retrospect ?

 

And one more request. Please execute the following command in Terminal on the problem client and post the results for us. I suggest that you copy and paste the command into Terminal so that you get it right.

Code:

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ls -l /Applications/Retrospect\ Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

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Those are lower-case "L" characters in the command, no pipe symbols. Here is what the output should look like:

Code:

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rhwimac:~ rhwalker$ ls -l /Applications/Retrospect\ Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

-rwsrwxrwx 1 root 503 490336 Apr 6 2006 /Applications/Retrospect Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

rhwimac:~ rhwalker$

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We are trying to figure out whether the Retrospect client was installed properly so that it can access all files.

 

russ

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

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Just set up an immediate backup of on of my client machines and I see all the files (and folders) except the ones that would be owned by other users.

 

---

 

"Other users?"

 

I think that the above statement proves that the Retrospect Client software is not being used, since that software has access to all user accounts.

 

After 5 posts, PhilQ has been unwilling or unable to answer the basic question regarding configuration. But I think that enough random facts have been exposed to suggest that he is attempting to use Retrospect in conjunction with Apple's file sharing software, resulting in completely expected behavior. Unwanted behavior, yes, but expected.

 

Retrospect can be used to backup a Source volume that is being shared via AFP. But it needs to be configured properly to do so.

 

Getting online help _always_ requires a thorough explanation from the person seeking help; those of use reading get frustrated when we have to guess.

[rhwalker]

On an unrelated topic, when I re-read my previous post I realized that EMC has created (and perpetuated) a serious security hole here by having pitond be setuid root and also be world-writable. This was reported to EMC/Dantz/Insignia/whatever three years ago and also two years ago in these forums but has never been fixed in subsequent Retrospect client updates:

Retrospect Client is world writable and setuid root!

 

I urge everyone to immediately, in Terminal on every client machine, do the following:

 

Code:

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sudo chmod a-w /Applications/Retrospect\ Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

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so that you end up with permissions of:

Code:

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rhwimac:~ rhwalker$ ls -l /Applications/Retrospect\ Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

-r-sr-xr-x 1 root 503 490336 Apr 6 2006 /Applications/Retrospect Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

---

I suggest that you copy and paste the "sudo chmod" command into Terminal so that you get the escaped space right; not for the faint hearted.

 

Unless this command is executed on your machine to fix the permissions on pitond, any hacker could just copy a shell file (or any program file) on top of pitond (because it is world writable and setuid root) and gain root access to any machine with Retrospect Client installed.

 

It's a shame, great shame, that this has gone on for over three years without correction through repeated Retrospect client updates. This is about the most severe security flaw that can exist on a unix machine, and even novice unix programmers are aware of it.

 

The most amusing part of it all is that Retrospect Client 6.1.130 was an update to fix a security vulnerability.

Retrospect Client Security Vulnerability Fixes

 

Sigh.

 

Russ

[philq]

I'm really sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult. I guess I'm just not communicating very well... Let me try one more time

 

I've got a G4 Mac running OS10.4 with Retrospect 6.1.126. I have a license for 3 client licenses. The client software I was running (from the same build) are on two older G4 Macs running 10.4 as well. The system that I tried to restore unsuccessfully was wiped (I did a clean install after all the problems). That system doesn't have the client reinstalled yet as I am afraid to recreate the same problem I had previously. That leaves one G4 Cube running the client that HAS been backed up and an intel MacBook Pro that has the client installed but I haven't attempted to backup yet (same concern about repeating problems).

 

Each machine has accounts set up for multiple family members (some admin, some standard users). I connect over a local area net in my home (both wired and wireless) through a NAT router. I see the clients via TCP/IP (I believe as I had to give an ip address in order to see the client originally). I believe I am using my Retrospect client licenses (as Retrospect indicates as such) but I am only assuming that means I am using the Retrospect client which shows us when I select clients in Retrospect setup.

 

All I can do is give you data on the Mac running retrospect (provided earlier) and I can give you the data from the machine that wasn't rebuilt...it isn't the problem machine but it appears to have the same condition (backup set only shows public folders and files...I confirmed this by trying to do an immediate backup). I attempted to do an immediate restore of my backup sets from both clients and again saw only public folders and files.

 

I have no idea how to ensure that Retrospect client ("pitond") is running as root. My guess is this is the problem. Here's the output you requested on the only running client (G4 Cube) I have...but I believe it is also exhibiting the problem:

 

Treebeard:~ sam$ ls -l /Applications/Retrospect\ Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

-rwsrwxr-x 1 root wheel 490336 Apr 6 2006 /Applications/Retrospect Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

 

If I'm using Retrospect in conjunction with Apple's file sharing software, I have no idea how I'm doing that. Again I'm not trying to be difficult. I do appreciate any help you can provide and I apologize for the frustration (it's frustrating for me as well). I will be off line for the next week so please don't feel I'm ignoring you if you don't see any further posts from me until then.

 

Thanks,

- Phil

[rhwalker]

Quote:

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I have a license for 3 client licenses. The client software I was running (from the same build) are on two older G4 Macs running 10.4 as well.

 

---

Still have not told us the CLIENT version.

 

Let's be very pedantic here.

 

(1) log on to the client that has the problem

(2) use the Finder (which I presume you can do) to navigate to the /Applications folder

(3) click once on (select) the "Retrospect Client" (without the quotes) (or "Retrospect Client.app", if your Finder preferences aren't set up to hide extensions) program

(4) under the Finder's "File" menu in the menu bar at the top of the screen, choose the "Get Info" command

(5) provide us with the numbers separated by a period, just to the right of the word "Version:" in the window that opens. Hint: The current version of Retrospect Client is 6.1.130.

 

Quote:

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I have no idea how to ensure that Retrospect client ("pitond") is running as root.

 

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Those steps were provided for the first time in my post on July 2, 2007, at 11:29 pm and for the second time in my post on July 6, 2007, at 3:08 pm. Here they are again:

 

Quote:

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Once again, I ask that you provide us with the results of this command's output on the problematic client, in terminal (with the window opened up wide - here is sample output):

 

Code:

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rhwimac:~ rhwalker$ ps axlwww | fgrep Retro

0

198 1 0 31 0 48548 5172 - S ?? 14:46.36 /Applications/Retrospect Client.app/Contents/Resources/pitond

501 8857 8854 0 31 0 18052 380 - R+ p1 0:00.01 fgrep Retro

rhwimac:~ rhwalker$

---

For the second time, is the UID (first character) for the pitond process (the Retrospect client) showing as 0 (root) so that user permissions aren't an issue for Retrospect ?

 

---

 

---

In short, tell us what the first number is on the pitond line when you open up a Terminal window wide and do the command:

ps axlwww | fgrep Retro

 

Now, the results may not be very useful now because you have told us that the machine that had the problem has been wiped clean (so the evidence may have been lost) and doesn't have the client installed; another machine has the client installed, and a third machine has the client installed but never has been backed up.

 

Initially you told us that you had the problem on only one machine. However, now you say that the machine on which you had the problem doesn't have the client installed, yet, from the tests you supposedly performed above, you indicate that the problematic user's home directory contents (on the machine that doesn't have a Retrospect client installed) don't appear on an immediate backup preflight test. That doesn't make sense unless you are not using the Retrospect client to back up the machine.

 

That leads me to believe, as Dave suspects, that you are using Apple's file sharing software to do the backup.

 

So, let's digress into the two ways that a Retrospect computer can back up another computer.

 

(1) the way it is supposed to be done: The Retrospect client program runs in the background on each client computer, with root privileges, so that it can see all files. The Retrospect client chats with Retrospect over the network, gets instructions to traverse the file system and provide files to Retrospect, which backs up the files.

 

(2) an alternate way, not advised: The Retrospect computer (not the client) mounts disks/volumes/shares (whatever you want to call them - the correct terminology is "shares") from the client computer on the Retrospect computer's desktop, and they are backed up just as if they were attached to the Retrospect computer. In this case, access to the shares is done with the privileges of the user that mounted the shares. If that user doesn't have access to the files on the client computer, then they can't be backed up.

 

When you choose a source to back up, EXACTLY what are you choosing? Are you choosing a volume in the Source "Volume Selection" window under "Local Desktop" or are you choosing a source under "Backup Clients"?

 

Russ

[CallMeDave]

Quote:

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All I can do is give you data on the Mac running retrospect (provided earlier) and I can give you the data from the machine that wasn't rebuilt...it isn't the problem machine but it appears to have the same condition (backup set only shows public folders and files...I confirmed this by trying to do an immediate backup).

 

---

 

 

At this point, the best course of action would be for you to make clear exactly what you did when you confirmed the above. The only way to make it clear enough for us to stop grousing is to go step-by-step, starting with "launch Retrospect." Please describe what is your Source, and how you selected that Source. Please describe where you saw only "public folders and files" and how you got to the place where you saw them.

 

Retrospect (both Client and local application) doesn't care in the least about any user accounts you have setup. It doesn't see any difference between what you are calling public folders and the most sensitive files in /private/var/launchd/0/.

 

The only thing that makes the ~/Public/ folder different from /Library/Frameworks/ or any other folder is Mac OS X system configuration settings; and Retrospect doesn't know anything about that configuration.

 

So either you have configured your Source in such a way that you have instructed Retrospect to see only ~/Public/, or you are doing something else entirely. The answer lies in the Source; explain it and we'll be closer to knowing what you're doing (wrong).

 

 

> (2) use the Finder (which I presume you can do)...

 

Ah, come on Russ, _I'm_ supposed to be the bad guy, and you're supposed to be the good guy!

 

Let's give Phil a break; he's trying, and we haven't scared him off yet!

 

Dave

[rhwalker]

Quote:

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> (2) use the Finder (which I presume you can do)...

 

Ah, come on Russ, _I'm_ supposed to be the bad guy, and you're supposed to be the good guy!

 

Let's give Phil a break; he's trying, and we haven't scared him off yet!

 

---

Providing version information is pretty basic. If he can't do that without minimal effort, it's hopeless.

 

Russ

[Mayoff]

In September 2005 we fixed the client security vulnerability you reference. We have confirmed that most recent version of the client (6.1.130) posted on our website does not have this problem. The URL is

 

http://download.dantz.com/archives/Client_OS_X-6_1_130.dmg