6.1.126 not talking to 5.1 Client

[JeffNY]

Hi,

 

I have Retrospect 6.1.126 (with Retrospect 6.1 Driver Update). It sees my PowerBook (and shows it in the client list) but I keep getting a -1028 error.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/PBclientbackup.tiff

 

Anyone know why? The PowerBook has OS 9.2.2 with version 5.1.180 of the Client.

 

Also been having trouble having 6.1 use the DVD disk in the drive:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroScreen.tiff

 

....under OS X and 6.1 do I have to start Retrospect first then insert the backup disk? I also couldn't find "Configure>Devices>Device Status>" ....from the Directory?? What does that mean? English translation please? My backup DVD did not even show up in the Finder.... I finally had to restart to get the disk out and get the backup going.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[rhwalker]

(1) Does the OS X machine have a firewall running? Sounds like there is some sort of network blocking between the two.

 

(2) Simply FYI, it's a little hard to tell if your Retrospect is 5.1.180 because the client control panel only reports its version as "5.1" - a little sloppiness in the vers resource strings in that release. However, at the top of the Get Info window, it does report the full version of 5.1.180.

 

Simply FYI, Retrospect Workgroup 6.1.126 (with RDU 6.1.8.101) works fine on our Xserve G5 (OS X Server 10.4.7) to back up a couple of PPC 9.2.2 computers with Retrospect 5.1.180 client. I'd check for some firewall or some such between your PowerBook and your Retrospect computer.

 

--------------

DVD issues: What DVD do you have? (See System Profile). Your TIFF only shows Pioneer. Need to see if your drive is supported. The list is here:

Compatibility List

-------

Quote:

---

under OS X and 6.1 do I have to start Retrospect first then insert the backup disk?

 

---

No. Retrospect will ask for media. It's unclear whether you are trying a "file" or a "disk" backup. Which type are you doing?

--------

Quote:

---

I also couldn't find "Configure>Devices>Device Status>" ....from the Directory?? What does that mean?

 

---

For some odd reason, Retrospect calls its initial tabbed/buttoned interface (that you see upon launch) the "Directory" (look at the window title: "Retrospect Directory").

"Configure > Devices > Device Status" is just shorthand for: click the Configure button, then the Devices button, then the Device Status Button.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Russ

[JeffNY]

>>FYI, it's a little hard to tell if your Retrospect is 5.1.180 because the client control panel only reports its version as "5.1"<<

 

I know its 5.1.180 because the only version I had on this PowerBook was 4.1 or 4.3 (whatever the highest client version was version 4). I just installed the 5.1.180 client so I could now backup to the MDD G4 I am using now with OS X and Retrospect 6.1 (I was using a Beige G3 with Retrospect 4.x).

 

What happened to the days when Mac software just worked? Here I update to the latest Retrospect and I can't back up my PowerBook and my Dad (with his version of Retrospect, see my other posts here) can't back up to to his DVD drive (that worked fine before) because Retrospect now sees it as a "Read Only" device! And the worst thing here is that that there seems to be solution to these two problems.

 

We paid good money for this software. And I'm not saying its all Retrospects fault, OS X could be a source of the problem here. But I need to get these machines backed up!! And EMC need to address the problems with Retrospect, that what we pay them for....

 

Totally Frustrated

Jeff

[CallMeDave]

Your screen capture shows the client showing up properly in the "Select a backup client" field of the "Backup Clients on Network" window. But you fail to inform readers what you did to bring up the error dialog.

 

- Did you click on the "Add by Adderss..." button? What happened?

- Did you click on the "Test..." button? What happened?

 

The "select a backup client" field will show clients that respond to a broadcast message sent via UDP on prt 497. Log in and communication is then handled via TCP on the same port. We know that there is physical connectivity, but something appears to be blocking the TCP packets.

 

It's been a long time, but there was an issue years ago where versions of the post 5.0.x "Classic" client installer was allowing AppleTalk to remain set for clients that were upgrading from an earlier version, even though Retrospect 5.0 dropped support for that protocol. I don't think this is the issue here, since later builds of the client installer fixed it, but it's easy enough to check:

 

- Confirm in the OS 9 Retrospect Control Panel that it displays TCP/IP somewhere

 

> My backup DVD did not even show up in the Finder

 

This would be expected behavior if the Retrospect File System extension were not installed.

 

- What version of OS X is being used?

 

Retrospect disks are formatted non-Finder readable. To eject a disk, either use the "Eject" button in the Storage Devices window (Configure->Devices) or just quit Retrospect and press the eject key on your Apple keyboard (the eject key will not work when Retrospect is running).

 

> I'm not saying its all Retrospects fault, OS X could be a source of the problem here.

 

Don't forget that pesky organic interface between the keyboard and the screen; it's a common cause of problems, too.

 

Dave

[twickland]

Quote:

---

...my Dad (with his version of Retrospect, see my other posts here) can't back up to to his DVD drive (that worked fine before) because Retrospect now sees it as a "Read Only" device!

 

---

Is he trying to add data to a pre-6.1 backup set? If so, that's the problem. Version 6.1 introduced a new file format, so that earlier backup sets cannot have new data written to them (though they can still be used for restores).

 

The solution is to create a new backup set. In the Directory, click on Configure> Backup Sets. If he doesn't have any custom backup scripts he's using, simply click on New to create the new backup set.

 

If he does have one or more custom backup scripts, instead of clicking "New," highlight the name of the existing backup set, click Configure, then Options, then Media Action. Select "New Media" as the action to take and click OK. This will create a new backup set with a sequence number one more than the previous backup set (e.g, doing this to old "Backup Set A" generates new "Backup Set A [001];" to "Backup Set B" [010]" generates "Backup Set B [011];" etc.). The advantage is that the new backup set then automatically replaces the old backup set in all scripts so you don't have to edit the scripts manually.

[JeffNY]

CallMeDave; I will try your suggestions tomorrow. I got busy with other things here and had to put this on the back burner....

 

twickland:

>>Is he trying to add data to a pre-6.1 backup set? If so, that's the problem.<<

 

That may indeed be his problem. I believe the backup set he had was from Retrospect 5.x. Will try doing a new backup set from scratch. But it would be nice if Retrospect 6.1 could put up a message saying the backup set can't be added to because its not compatible (for adding to) with 6.1....instead of this:

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/SCREENSHOT2.tiff

 

Thanks for the help Guys.......

[JeffNY]

> My backup DVD did not even show up in the Finder

 

>>This would be expected behavior if the Retrospect File System extension were not installed. <<

 

Is this a separate download from somewhere? I am using 10.4.8.....

 

Also, any idea why Retrospect 6.1 gives me so many errors and incomplete backups when backing up nextwork clients? While backing up a large client I kept getting some kind of error like these (most after the backup has been in progress for a while...then it just stops and I get these):

 

From the Log File:

"Trouble reading files, error 519 (network communication failed)"

"Can't initialize source, error 519 (network communication failed)."

"Can't access volume Mac OS 9 on Jennifer M’s Power Mac G4, error -1028 (client is not visible on network)."

 

From a message dialog box:

"Sorry, can't connect to client Jennifer M.'s Power Mac G4 error 505 (client reserved)"

 

....one Mac on the network is running OS 9 the other 10.4.8. Both have the lastest Retrospect client version.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[JeffNY]

I can no "File System extension" to download and install for OS X. And I find no reference in the manual to this, and no options in the OS X control panels or Retrospect Preferences.

 

But when I leave a Retrospect backup DVD disk in the Pioneer 111 drive neither OS X shows it in the Finder AND Retrospect does not see it.....even when I go into "Devices":

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroScreen.tiff

 

....it just says its "(Unknown)".....how can Retrospect not know what one of its own disks is??!!

 

Remember the "Good Old Days" of OS 9 when stuff just WORKED?

 

Jeff

[CallMeDave]

Retrospect's CD/DVD File System Plugin software is installed by default with an "Easy Install," or can be selected or deselected during a Custom Install.

 

> Remember the "Good Old Days" of OS 9 when stuff just WORKED?

 

While "Classic" Mac OS was indeed simpler in many ways, I also remember numerous "clean" system installs, application crashes or force quits that required restarting the entire machine (since memory was unprotected) and kludges to get a sense of multi-user functionality. I'd never want to go back.

[JeffNY]

Hi Dave,

 

I re-ran the 6.1.126 installer and used Custom Install to try and install it (I used Easy Install the first time anyway) but got this message:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroExtInstalled.TIF

 

...so why is it whenever I want to do a backup I have to restart my MDD DP G4 and try and get the disk out before the system starts to load (pressing the Eject key after the system starts up wont eject the disk for some reason and even though Retrospect sees this "Unknown" DVD disk pressing Eject in Retrospect does not eject it either!)

 

Then I have to open Retrospect, THEN put the disk back in...........DUMB DUMB DUMB

 

What else can I try to fix this? Is EMC / Dantz aware of the problem?

 

Thanks for the help,

Jeff

[JeffNY]

Dave,

 

- Did you click on the "Add by Adderss..." button? What happened?

- Did you click on the "Test..." button? What happened?

 

Here is the screenshot:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroTestButton.jpg

 

 

What don't understand is how Retrospect 6.1 can see the PowerBook G3 client (even showing it in the client list), but it can't communicate with it????? Retrospect 4.x had no problem communicating with this PowerBook (via AppleTalk)

 

One thing I did discover when trying to "Add by Address"; this PowerBook does not have a local (192. . .) IP address because it is on a wireless network via an Apple Airport. So when I open the OS 9 TCP/IP control panel it shows the IP address as 10.0.1.4, and the Router address as 10.0.1.4 (I tried connecting using both address....got the -1025 error both times)

 

 

- Confirm in the OS 9 Retrospect Control Panel that it displays TCP/IP somewhere

 

Yes. On the OS 9 PowerBook, the client control panel displays "TCP/IP" in the top right corner, just left of the "5.1" version number.

 

- What version of OS X is being used?

 

10.4.8

 

Here is the network layout...

http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroNetwork.JPG

 

So, where to from here??? Thoughts or suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[twickland]

For your "invisible" client, have you tried uninstalling the client software, forgetting the client from the backup client database, and then reinstalling the client software?

 

Speaking of the "good old days of OS 9," was anything recently changed on that machine? Have you considered the possibility of an extension or other software conflict with the Retrospect control panel?

 

For your 519 errors, see the section on troubleshooting in the User's Guide; there are a lot of potential causes, including trouble with your switch or dropouts in your wireless connection.

 

If network communication is not restored after a 519 error, you will then see a -1028 error when accessing the client. If the 519 error occurs during a backup and network communication is later restored, you will typically see a 505 error with the client that was being backed up, until that client is either turned off and back on again or the client computer is rebooted.

[JeffNY]

>>forgetting the client from the backup client database<<

 

I cant 'forget' it......in never lets me add it to the Client database. I just get the -1028 error when I try and add it to the Client list.....even though Retrospect 6.1 shows it to me in the list...

 

See this from the original post....

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/PBclientbackup.tiff

 

.....I just cant believe there is not a way to resolve this! It's now been over a month (1/12th of a year) I have been trying to solve this "mystery"

[rhwalker]

And see the question I asked over a month ago that you still haven't answered:

Quote:

---

(1) Does the OS X machine have a firewall running? Sounds like there is some sort of network blocking between the two.

 

---

From your subsequent posts, I see that the PowerBook is on a wireless network through an Airport, on a different subnet. The Airport also runs its own firewall, so the above question is equally applicable to the Airport.

 

We've been waiting over a month for you to provide the simple answer to whether there is a firewall blocking port 497 between Retrospect and its client. Both UDP and TCP need to be open on port 497. Before you rant some more, could you please provide this information so we can try to figure out what is causing Retrospect not to be able to communicate with its client? It's now been over a month (1/12th of a year) that we have been trying to get this "information" from you.

 

You might also want to try (on the Retrospect 6.1.126 computer) using Network Utility to do a port scan of port 497 of the client's IP. That would be very instructive. It would also be instructive to put the client on the same wired subnet as the Retrospect computer and see if they can talk that way. That would answer the question as to where the port block is occurring.

 

Thanks,

 

Russ

[JeffNY]

>>(1) Does the OS X machine have a firewall running? Sounds like there is some sort of network blocking between the two.<<

 

I will check again, but I can tell you the MDD backed up the Beige G3 tower mentioned above (also running 9.2.2 and 5.1.180 Client) fine....except for an occasional communication error mostly during the first (long) backup.

 

This Beige G3 tower is connected directly to the Asante switch the MDD is also connected to. This Beige G3 (with OS 9.2.2) used to be the Retrospect network backup machine.

 

 

>>The Airport also runs its own firewall, so the above question is equally applicable to the Airport.<<

 

Mine may not. But it is an older model. I just logged into the AirPort with "AirPort Admin Utility" (version 2.0.4 running on the Pismo PowerBook) and see no options or info on a Firewall.

 

 

>>We've been waiting over a month for you to provide the simple answer to whether there is a firewall blocking port 497<<

 

Today is the first time someone mentioned Port 497 specifically. Not to sound sarcastic but maybe Retrospect should tell the user "Check for firewalls and Port 497 to see if they are blocked" instead of the highly informative "Cant log in, error -1028". I have this powerful machine that was, until just a couple years ago, classifed as a super computer.....the best Retrospect can do is report totally useless "error -1028" errors? It's crazy.

 

This whole thing, in my mind, just brings home the point EMC/Dantz needs to get their act together. Could I possibly be the ONLY one in the world who has an AirPort on their network and uses Retrospect? I know a little about computers (my first computer was a kit built IMSAI 808o that ran CP/M) and I can't get this working. I can only imagine the number of average Joes and Janes out there who just want to back up there computers but just give up trying.

 

Just like the issue my Dads backup problem; instead of Retrospect telling the user you can't add to a earlier backup set if you are using 6.1 it just shows the backup set as locked....leading the end user to wonder if its the drive, the drives connection to the computer or something else.

 

And now you have to be a TCP/IP network guru to use Retrospect? I might expect this in 1973, when you HAD to attend computer classes to use a UNIX machine and know about ports. But this is 2006 and todays Retrospect is harder to use than its several year old grandfather. Real progress. I look forward to version 7.....that'll probably replace dialog boxes with a command line interface and come with a 4" thick 5 pound manual.

 

EMC/Dazntz better wake up.....I guarantee you TimeMachine from Apple won't work like this.

 

And there is STILL the issue (above) of why Retrospect cant recognize backup DVD's that it formatted when they are left in the MDD's DVD drive.....???????

 

Having said all that, and I mean this sincerely, thank you for the responses and suggestions. My angst and frustration is directed at EMC/Dantz....not the posters to this forum.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[rhwalker]

Quote:

---

You might also want to try (on the Retrospect 6.1.126 computer) using Network Utility to do a port scan of port 497 of the client's IP. That would be very instructive. It would also be instructive to put the client on the same wired subnet as the Retrospect computer and see if they can talk that way. That would answer the question as to where the port block is occurring.

 

---

Still waiting on the results of this test... It would be very valuable information that might help us solve your issue.

 

Quote:

---

Today is the first time someone mentioned Port 497 specifically. Not to sound sarcastic but maybe Retrospect should tell the user "Check for firewalls and Port 497 to see if they are blocked" instead of the highly informative "Cant log in, error -1028".

 

---

A simple search of the Retrospect Knowledgebase for -1028 turns up the relevant article as the first listed article, discussing how to open port 497 for UDP and TCP on your firewall, and why that is needed so that Retrospect can talk to its clients, and also that broadcast needs to be open on that port as well. Here's a direct link to the article - I suggest that you read what the EMC Retrospect staff took the time to document as a solution when this error message occurs:

http://kb.dantz.com/article.asp?article=1021&p=2

 

For future reference, here's a link to the Knowledgebase search page:

Retrospect Knowledgebase

 

See also chapter 10 of the Retrospect User's Guide ("Problems and Solutions") which discusses firewall issues.

 

I don't find Retrospect 6.1 any harder to use than version 2.1, which is the first version I used. My secretary is able to use the program to retrieve files from tape that were saved 15 years ago. Admitted, there is a steep learning curve. But once it's set up, it just works. The only futzing around I ever have to do is to delete the preference file every couple of months when Retrospect stops autolaunching (wish that annoying bug would be fixed, but it's very hard to replicate), and to remove tapes from the autoloader every so often when they fill up and put new tapes in their place. Other than that, it just works, and keeps swapping tapes in the autoloader every night, walking our network and backing up all of the client computers every night and then shutting them down, sending me an email report each night. There are features that I wish it had, but no product is perfect.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Russ

[JeffNY]

It would appear there is no Firewall blocking going on:

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroFirewall1.tif

http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroFirewall2.tif

 

 

I will now try Network Utility. I was not on the MDD earlier.

[rhwalker]

Ok, that shows that the Retrospect computer is not blocking port 497. Unless you've installed something odd on the client (e.g., IPNetRouter, etc.), it will not have a firewall. The author of that program also wrote the initial Airport software. But we don't know yet whether the Airport is passing port 497 UDP/TCP and broadcast traffic.

 

russ

[JeffNY]

hummmm....nothing seems to happen, I just get the text below and spinning wheel next to the Stop button just keeps spinning....no info on any ports is reported. I also tried scanning 10.0.1.4 (the AirPort I believe) and get the same result...shouldn't at least a few ports respond with something?

 

 

=====================

Port Scan has started ...

 

Port Scanning host: 10.0.1.1

[JeffNY]

Just tried Pinging 10.0.1.1......

 

====================

Ping has started ...

 

PING 10.0.1.1 (10.0.1.1): 56 data bytes

 

--- 10.0.1.1 ping statistics ---

10 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

[rhwalker]

Ok. For comparison, here's what I get when doing Network Utility to do a port 497 scan (only test ports between 497 and 497) of a 10.4.8 client running Retrospect client 6.1.130:

Quote:

---

Port Scan has started ...

 

Port Scanning host: 192.168.0.18

 

Open TCP Port: 497 dantz

Port Scan has completed ...

 

---

and here's what I get when doing the same scan of a PPC 8100 running Mac OS 9.1 and Retrospect Client 5.1.180:

Quote:

---

Port Scan has started ...

 

Port Scanning host: 192.168.0.2

 

Open TCP Port: 497 dantz

Port Scan has completed ...

 

---

Could you move the notebook onto the wired LAN (and configure accordingly for that subnet, if it's not set up for DHCP) and report results?

 

Thanks,

 

Russ

[JeffNY]

Well, it appears the PowerBooks IP address changed to 10.0.1.9.....

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroPismoTCP.JPG

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroAirport.JPG

 

 

But I tried to Ping that and got no responce....

 

==================

Ping has started ...

 

PING 10.0.1.9 (10.0.1.9): 56 data bytes

 

--- 10.0.1.9 ping statistics ---

10 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

[rhwalker]

Let's also confirm those IP addresses. While the Classic notebook is on the WiFi, could you please report what your MDD shows in the Network Preference Pane (Show: [the WiFi config] for TCP/IP) for:

(a) its IP address

( its subnet mask

© its Router IP

 

and the same info for the Classic notebook (from the TCP/IP control panel).

 

Russ

[rhwalker]

Ok, thanks for the pictures. I suspect that the Classic notebook was 10.0.1.4 before (not 10.0.1.1, which is the Airport / Router). Just wanted to make sure.

 

I'll admit that I've never set up an Airport before (we use SonicWALL at our perimeter), but I question how you have this set up under the Network tab on the Airport setup. I would think that you would have the box checked for "Ethernet computers share a single IP address using NAT" and that you would have "Enable DHCP server on Ethernet" checked too - that way, the Airport would have the public IP on its WAN side, and would create two subnets, one on the WiFi side, one on the LAN side; the computers on the LAN would get an IP by DHCP for their subnet, and the WiFi notebook would get its IP as it does now, by DHCP.

 

I wonder whether the Airport is passing Retrospect broadcast packets from the WiFi to the LAN.

 

What's behind that Airport tab (the first one)? Any way to set routes or do firewall stuff?

 

Russ

[JeffNY]

Here is the TCP panel on the MDD

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jeffny61/RetroMDDTCP.tif

 

.....the MDD does not have a WiFi card installed.

 

I am real curious why I cannot get any kind of Ping or Port Scan responce from the PowerBook? Some kind of communication must be going on though because Retrospect shows the PowerBook in the "Select a backup client" list.....and I just confirmed it still did that and it does still show up on that list...