Trying to select multiple Favorites in a Copy Script?

[Gintzler]

Running Mac v16.1.2 with Windows Client installed on a PC. (coming from v6.1 where the script was called "Duplicate") 

Have set 3 particular folders as Favorites in sources that I want to do a "Copy" script. Don't want to do a Backup script because I do not want incremental.

It will not allow me to select those 3 favorites folders in starting a new Copy script. Don't want to have 3 separate scripts.

Should I go to an Archiving Script?

[Lennart_T]

From Retrospect's User Guide at https://www.retrospect.com/en/documentation/user_guide/mac/operations#copying

By the nature of the copy operation, you may only copy one Source to one Destination. The source can be a volume or a Favorite Folder from a volume.

That means you must use three Copy scripts with three different destinations. From the User Guide:

Warning: When you copy all files and folders from one disk to another, Retrospect deletes any data that may already be on the destination volume. Be careful!

[Gintzler]

47 minutes ago, Lennart_T said:

From Retrospect's User Guide at https://www.retrospect.com/en/documentation/user_guide/mac/operations#copying

By the nature of the copy operation, you may only copy one Source to one Destination. The source can be a volume or a Favorite Folder from a volume.

That means you must use three Copy scripts with three different destinations. From the User Guide:

Warning: When you copy all files and folders from one disk to another, Retrospect deletes any data that may already be on the destination volume. Be careful!

Thanks. I know I'm jumping from v6 to v16 which is a giant leap. I just liked the way v6 did duplicate. It would copy the files as is and not turn them into RS files and keep the originals in place.

[Lennart_T]

Did version 6 do this differently? (I mean was able to have multiple sources on a Copy?)

[Gintzler]

1 minute ago, Lennart_T said:

Did version 6 do this differently? (I mean was able to have multiple sources on a Copy?)

No it can't. I just thought with the Backup script you can select multiple Favorites but can't do it with the "Copy" Script. But "Copy" script is kinda useless if it deletes the original file on the source. Oh well. 

[Lennart_T]

8 minutes ago, Gintzler said:

But "Copy" script is kinda useless if it deletes the original file on the source

It does NOT. It deletes the unwanted files from the DESTINATION, so both the source and the destination contains the same files. No more, no less.

[Gintzler]

1 minute ago, Lennart_T said:

It does NOT. It deletes the unwanted files from the DESTINATION, so both the source and the destination contains the same files. No more, no less.

Oops. My bad. Got source and destination mixed up. Thanks.

[DavidHertzberg]

Gintzler,

My references are to the Retrospect Mac 16 User's Guide.  (Unlike Lennart_T, I don't trust the Mac 17 UG because it's been edited by the StorCentric Slasher.)

First, you're not as wrong as you think.  There's a Copy script Move Files option on page 121 that "deletes files from the source volume after they have been copied."  However "By default, this option is off."

Second, I don't see why per your OP you "Don't want to have 3 separate scripts."  Unfortunately the UG has never explained for any type of activity the Use pop-up shown in the Summary screenshot for Copy below item 11 on page 121.  As defined on page 225, an activity thread—a capability added to Retrospect Mac 8 and not extended to the Desktop Edition until Retrospect Mac 15—allows multiple activities to run concurrently if they have unique sources and destinations.   "By assigning activities to the same activity thread, it ensures that they will run one after the other."  Thus you can have 3 Copy scripts for each corresponding source and destination Favorite Folder—but specifying the same Activity Thread, and either schedule them one minute apart or give them script names in the alphanumeric sequence in which you want them to run.

Third, your OP says "Don't want to do a Backup script because I do not want incremental."  If you read media action on page 228, it says "“Recycle Media Set” tells Retrospect to delete the contents of the selected Media Set’s Catalog, then erase and reuse the first member of that Media Set, literally recycling the media and using it over again."  So, per page 35, you could have one Backup script specifying all 3 Favorite Folders as sources and its own separate Media Set as a destination.  That would eliminate incremental backup, but the latest backed-up version of the 3 Favorite Folders wouldn't be available to the users until you ran a Restore activity for that separate Media Set—and that activity could use a Rule specifying a Windows Path per page 168 to limit the Restore to one or two of the 3 Favorite Folders.  In short, for what purpose do you intend to use files contained in these Favorite Folders?

[Gintzler]

On 2/18/2021 at 10:53 PM, DavidHertzberg said:

Gintzler,

My references are to the Retrospect Mac 16 User's Guide.  (Unlike Lennart_T, I don't trust the Mac 17 UG because it's been edited by the StorCentric Slasher.)

First, you're not as wrong as you think.  There's a Copy script Move Files option on page 121 that "deletes files from the source volume after they have been copied."  However "By default, this option is off."

Second, I don't see why per your OP you "Don't want to have 3 separate scripts."  Unfortunately the UG has never explained for any type of activity the Use pop-up shown in the Summary screenshot for Copy below item 11 on page 121.  As defined on page 225, an activity thread—a capability added to Retrospect Mac 8 and not extended to the Desktop Edition until Retrospect Mac 15—allows multiple activities to run concurrently if they have unique sources and destinations.   "By assigning activities to the same activity thread, it ensures that they will run one after the other."  Thus you can have 3 Copy scripts for each corresponding source and destination Favorite Folder—but specifying the same Activity Thread, and either schedule them one minute apart or give them script names in the alphanumeric sequence in which you want them to run.

Third, your OP says "Don't want to do a Backup script because I do not want incremental."  If you read media action on page 228, it says "“Recycle Media Set” tells Retrospect to delete the contents of the selected Media Set’s Catalog, then erase and reuse the first member of that Media Set, literally recycling the media and using it over again."  So, per page 35, you could have one Backup script specifying all 3 Favorite Folders as sources and its own separate Media Set as a destination.  That would eliminate incremental backup, but the latest backed-up version of the 3 Favorite Folders wouldn't be available to the users until you ran a Restore activity for that separate Media Set—and that activity could use a Rule specifying a Windows Path per page 168 to limit the Restore to one or two of the 3 Favorite Folders.  In short, for what purpose do you intend to use files contained in these Favorite Folders?

Thanks for those tips. How can I set a Media Set to always “Recycle Media Set” within a certain script? On Page 36 it says it always defaults to incremental. Do I use disk grooming to only keep the most recent backup of this Favorite folder that I need? 

[Lennart_T]

2 hours ago, Gintzler said:

Thanks for those tips. How can I set a Media Set to always “Recycle Media Set” within a certain script?

 

BEWARE that if you happen to lose the originals 10 seconds after you recycled, you better have another backup.  

[Gintzler]

2 minutes ago, Lennart_T said:

 

BEWARE that if you happen to lose the originals 10 seconds after you recycled, you better have another backup.  

Okay, Thanks. Looks like I have to change my script from Archive to Backup to get that option.

[Lennart_T]

"Archive" is not a "Copy" and not a "Backup". "Archive" does indeed remove the originals after the copy is done.

Only "Backup" uses media sets.

[DavidHertzberg]

Gintzler,

I think you must be looking at the page number in the top left corner of your browser's view of the Retrospect Mac 16 User's Guide, rather the actual manual page number printed at the bottom right or bottom left of the page.  Starting some versions after Retrospect Mac 6, User's Guides begin with a un-numbered title page followed with a copyright-license-warning page that has the number "ii" at the bottom left.  So if you type "36" into your browser's view, you'll actually be looking at page 34 of the manual.  That's the first mention of Media Actions, saying that Incremental is the default.

Now do a browser search for "Media Action".  Once you get past page 36, the next mention of the term is on page 96 of the UG.  Paragraph 9 on that page says:

Quote

In the schedule interface, the Destination pop-up menu lists the Media Sets that you previously selected. If more than one Media Set is associated with this Script, choose the one you want for this schedule from the pop-up menu. Next, choose the Media action that you want (the choices are No media action, Skip to new member, Start new Media Set, or Recycle Media Set). See Chapter 2 for more information on Media actions. Finally, set the date, time, and frequency for the Schedule to execute. See “Working with Schedules,” later in this chapter, for more information.

Also starting some versions after Retrospect Mac 6, the Retrospect Inc. august Documentation Committee stopped actually printing Chapter numbers except—sometimes—on the top left and bottom left of the first page of a chapter.  If you go back to page 85, you'll see page 96 is part of Chapter 6.

While I was writing this post, Lennart_T's posts—with your reply in between—arrived.  Why the heck had you planned to use an Archive script?   😕

[Gintzler]

All the lingo in upgrading from v6 to v16 was kinda confusing at the beginning. But we think we have worked out all the kinks. We where so used to the "Duplicate" function in v6 of just coping files from one source to another source without doing any extra function was causing a lot of confusion. Thanks for all your help guys! 

[Gintzler]

--- Just had to restart the RS Engine ---

Have you guys ever gotten that a source is busy and nothing will kick it out of Busy mode?

[DavidHertzberg]

Gintzler,

5 hours ago, Gintzler said:

--- Just had to restart the RS Engine ---

Have you guys ever gotten that a source is busy and nothing will kick it out of Busy mode?

If you're getting a -535 error, it may be because you've got some process doing a forced update of your "client" machine.  In June 2016  I  was getting that, and this post shows it was because of Adobe Flash Player—which is now repeatedly advertising it's going away— or MS/Firefox doing updates.

Also, here's a post that details the differences in terminology between Retrospect Mac 6 and Retrospect Mac ≥  8.

Edited February 22, 2021 by DavidHertzberg
In first paragraph, it was Adobe Flash Player etc. doing the updates. In second paragraph, fixed link.

[Nigel Smith]

18 hours ago, Gintzler said:

Have you guys ever gotten that a source is busy and nothing will kick it out of Busy mode?

Client? Often-- eg when a backup is in progress and the user sleeps their machine, pulls the network plug, etc. Client remains "in use" so the server can't back it up. Either restart the client machine or (if your RS client permissions allow) turn the client off and on again(Option-click on the client "Off" button to fully kill the client process).

[DavidHertzberg]

On 2/23/2021 at 6:05 AM, Nigel Smith said:

Client? Often-- eg when a backup is in progress and the user sleeps their machine, pulls the network plug, etc. Client remains "in use" so the server can't back it up. Either restart the client machine or (if your RS client permissions allow) turn the client off and on again(Option-click on the client "Off" button to fully kill the client process).

Gintzler,

On page 40 of the Retrospect Mac 16 User's Guide, an Enable Wake-on-LAN checkbox is described for Sources->Options.  I don't know whether checking this box for a "client" will wake it up if the user sleeps his/her machine during a backup; at the bottom of this post I've asked Nigel Smith if he knows.  In fact, per this 2016 post,  I don't know if Wake-on-LAN is now working—it wasn't in 2016—at all for Scheduled (rather than Proactive) scripts. 

FYI, the screenshot at the top of page 40 is way out of date; the two checkboxes in the top pane have been joined by three more for features added in the last 10 years, and a middle pane has been added for the Allow client to permissions—also added in the last 10 years—that Nigel Smith mentions in his post directly above.  Unfortunately the august Documentation Committee stopped updating UG chapters other than  "What's New" in 2015.

Nigel Smith,

If a user puts a "client" to sleep while a Scheduled script is backing it up, do you know if Wake-on-LAN will reawaken it if enabled for that "client" Source?

Also, given the recent substitution of SSDs for HDDs, does sleeping a machine—other than for "mere" 🤣 security—actually still prolong its lifetime?

 

[Nigel Smith]

9 hours ago, DavidHertzberg said:

If a user puts a "client" to sleep while a Scheduled script is backing it up, do you know if Wake-on-Lan will reawaken it if enabled for that "client" Source?

Interesting question! I think not, because I'm guessing that WoL is part of the discovery phase only. Unless that's how they did the fix you mentioned way back when?

And sleep is only for security if you've got "require password on wake" set. IMO it's more about energy saving, extending component life (not just disks) etc -- especially when moving laptops around (I get so annoyed when I see people walking up and down stairs at work with laptop open and running -- and also get a desperate urge to trip them up, just to see what happens!).

[DavidHertzberg]

😧😧

On 2/24/2021 at 7:31 AM, Nigel Smith said:

Interesting question! I think not, because I'm guessing that WoL is part of the discovery phase only. Unless that's how they did the fix you mentioned way back when?

And sleep is only for security if you've got "require password on wake" set. IMO it's more about energy saving, extending component life (not just disks) etc -- especially when moving laptops around (I get so annoyed when I see people walking up and down stairs at work with laptop open and running -- and also get a desperate urge to trip them up, just to see what happens!).

I originally tried to test this out early this morning, but ran into a problem that may be peculiar to my installation—rather than Retrospect Mac 16.6. 

I first Removed and Added—afterward changing the Options—on the "backup server" Source definition of my MacBook Pro "client" to allow Wake-on-LAN, and did the same Options-changing on my two daily No Media Action Backup scripts (the "sacrificial" script and the "real" script—after re-checkmarking the MBP on all my scripts that use it. I then tried putting my MBP—booting macOS 10.13 High Sierra—to sleep via the Apple menu; but except for one time it wouldn't stay asleep for more than a few seconds.

However tonight I experimented further, and I can get my MBP "client" to stay asleep—initiating that via the Sleep item on the Apple Menu—if in System Preferences->Energy Saver->Power Adapter I change the Turn display off after slider from Never to 3 hours.  Then, provided Wake for network access is check-marked on the pane below the slider, putting the MBP to sleep while running my "sacrificial" script (it uses the No Files Rule—note Rule is the Retrospect Mac term for Selector, but scans a while because I've now got a thumb drive plugged into my MBP) results in its waking up in a few seconds.

I have no idea what the Windows "client" equivalent of the System Preferences->Energy Saver->Power Adapter settings would be.  Nigel Smith will know.

And yes, Nigel Smith, I knew about require password on wake; I wondered if some of your cleaning people might moonlight for Chinese Intelligence. 😧

P.S.: Forget what I said in the third paragraph of this post.  I stayed awake long enough to try this on my scheduled 3:00 a.m. "sacrificial" and 3:05 a.m. "real" Backup scripts, and things didn't work out as I'd hoped.  I woke up at 6:45 a.m., and remembered that since Spring 2015 I've been using an external keyboard and a mouse connected to a bus-powered KVM switch—so that I can switch both of them them back and forth between my MacBook Pro and an old Digital Audio G4.  Bus-powered means the KVM switch shuts down unless either the MBP or the G4 is awake, so the spacebar on the external keyboard doesn't wake up the MBP.  Pushing the spacebar on the MBP's built-in keyboard does wake it up, but that doesn't get an already-running Backup script out of a frozen state after I've slept the MBP while the script is running.  In short: Wake-on-LAN still doesn't work for scheduled scripts.

Edited May 1, 2021 by DavidHertzberg
P.S.: Forget what I said in the third paragraph of this post; Wake-on-LAN still doesn't work for scheduled scripts.