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Retrospect Stuck Waiting Trying to Recycle

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Hello,

I currently have version Retrospect 8.1.0 backing up a single server.  We have a schedule to backup every night M-F to a tape using an RD1000.  A new tape is put in every day, so 5 different tapes. Have noticed that the backup stopped working and have been troubleshooting a few things.(Was setup by someone else)

The main issue right now is that we want the tape to be erased before each new backup if possible.  I assumed this was what the recycle action was for and have been trying to get it to work but it seems to just stay in waiting for recycle.

If that is not possible then I assume we can look at the grooming feature.

 

There is only one script.

There is only one backup set.

 

Any help with this is greatly appreciated as its my first time dealing with retrospect!

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You should see a message, something like "Waiting for ...". So what is it waiting for?

 

You should have five backup sets, one for each day of the week.

You can (should) use one script with five destinations, the five backup sets.

The script should use five schedules, one for each day of the week.

You should use recycle. You can only use grooming for disk backup sets, not tape.

 

Don't you save any backups longer by archiving a tape, say once a month or so?

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To my knowledge these are the only local backups, there is also an offsite that runs.

 

Also, they are RD1000 Removable Disk, not tapes, my mistake.  I'm guess it is still setup the same way, just select removable disk instead of tape when creating each backup set?

 

Here is a picture of what it looks like now.

http://imgur.com/veUectO

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So I got on remotely a little bit after it was initially supposed to start and it was prompting me to select the disk to backup to before continuing.  

I'm guessing it is gonna do this every night for the first week?

I selected the correct removeable disk, it changed the name of it, then began.

Checked this morning and it completed with 228 errors. There a way to see what these are?

It appeared to fill the whole 500 GB disk up but stated there was only 105 GB to backup.  All the files are labeled Restropect Data, Retrospect Data 002, etc. This correct?

 

 

Sorry for all the questions but I'm new  to it!

 

Also is there a way to make the tape eject when done? Thank you!

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You could add each cartridge as a "member" of each backup set so it will not have to ask every night.

You could also (as an alternative) erase the remaining four cartridges and set Retrospect to use a blank media if the correct one isn't found. (I think that is an option on the backup set)

 

You should be able to see the log on the server. It would be interesting to see those errors.

 

I think the files are .rdb files, but can't remember.

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I can't help feeling that your problems basically have to do with your having defined your RD1000 cartridges as  "removable disk" Backup Sets rather than as "disk" backup sets.  RD1000 is just Dell's brand name for its RDX docks and cartridges.  As Scillonian's first post in this thread states, "An RDX cartridge is a SATA hard disk in a standardised drop resistant enclosure that works with a standardised dock. If it is an external USB connected dock it would be no different to connecting a normal USB hard disk."

 

ProFromGrover, the original poster in the thread linked to in the previous paragraph, says in his final post three months later "After working with RDX cartridges for a few months, my very firm advice is to ALWAYS define as a disk, not as a removable disk".  That post goes on to talk about his removable-disk problems, which sound similar to yours.

 

If you click "Removable Disk Drives" in the TOC of this chapter of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide, it links to a section whose first two sentences are "Removable disk drives use media that can be accessed from the Windows Explorer. This includes Zip, REV, SuperDisk, DVD-RAM, and MO."  These were "super-floppy" media (although Iomega REV disk cartridges contained a motor—but no heads) that are obsolete.  As my first post—the next-to-final one—in the thread linked to in the first paragraph quotes the Retrospect Mac 13 User's Guide, "'Disk Media Sets [backup Sets in Retrospect Windows terminology] replace the less-flexible Removable Disk sets present in older versions of Retrospect.'"  Retrospect Mac 8 was redesigned to clear out a lot of cruft; for reasons that probably involved marketing, the same cruft-clearing—and terminology changing—was not done for Retrospect Windows.

 

So redefine your RD1000 cartridges as Disk Backup Sets—not File Backup Sets.  And stop thinking in terms of tapes.

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Thanks for the responses.

 

David,

There are actually multiple options when creating the backup sets, disk, removeable disk, and then file.  When setting the 5 different sets up as Lennart suggested, I did use the removable disk option as the description actually includes RDX.  These options are seen here.

 

zs8xV2v.jpg

 

So should we still define the sets as disk backup sets?

Again we want them to erase before backing up.

 

I will do this now and await yalls response and monitor tonights backup.

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I'm not familiar with RD1000 or RDX. So after reading David's post I agree with him.

 

Using a disk backup set is what I am used to and it works fine for me. So you should follow David's advice.

 

Your current scripts should work fine. Just replace the destinations with the new Disk backup sets. A "Recycle" backup deletes the old backups from the drive first and then writes the new backup.

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I'm not familiar with RD1000 or RDX. So after reading David's post I agree with him.

 

Using a disk backup set is what I am used to and it works fine for me. So you should follow David's advice.

 

Your current scripts should work fine. Just replace the destinations with the new Disk backup sets. A "Recycle" backup deletes the old backups from the drive first and then writes the new backup.

Ok Thank you,

I will redo all the backup sets and see what it does tonight.

 

To confirm I am creating 5 separate 'disk' backup sets and scheduling them for each day of the week respectively and setting the action to 'recycle' when setting up the schedule.

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Ok Thank you,

I will redo all the backup sets and see what it does tonight.

 

To confirm I am creating 5 separate 'disk' backup sets and scheduling them for each day of the week respectively and setting the action to 'recycle' when setting up the schedule.

 

Correct.

 

(You should have all schedules and scripts already set up. Just change the destination.)

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Thanks for the responses.

 

David,

There are actually multiple options when creating the backup sets, disk, removeable disk, and then file.  When setting the 5 different sets up as Lennart suggested, I did use the removable disk option as the description actually includes RDX.  These options are seen here.

 

zs8xV2v.jpg

 

So should we still define the sets as disk backup sets?

Again we want them to erase before backing up.

 

I will do this now and await yalls response and monitor tonights backup.

 

 

The OP in ProFromGrover's thread, which I have linked to again for your viewing pleasure, asks essentially the same question.  In it he links to a Retrospect Inc. video, created this year 8 days before he started the thread, which briefly says around minute 1:06 to define the RDX as a Disk Backup Set—blithely ignoring what the dialog you (and he) show says.  In the video I recognize the dulcet voice of Mayoff, head of Retrospect Inc. Support.

 

IMHO Retrospect Inc. should "take off and nuke any mention of Removable Disk from orbit", both in the Retrospect Windows app code and UI and in the User's Guide.  However I am neither an employee of Retrospect Inc. nor of the Colonial (Space) Marines.  OTOH there may be a few benighted Retrospect Windows users who are still backing up to "super-floppy" media, and we wouldn't want to upset them.  Iomega REV, one of the other two media types mentioned in the Removable Disk dialog choice, has been discontinued (last paragraph).  Quantum GoVault, the other media type mentioned in the dialog choice, is also no longer manufactured—and it never went beyond capacities of 320GB uncompressed.

 

FYI EMC Corp., while its Iomega Division was still the owner of Retrospect, shipped Retrospect Mac 8 in early 2009—as discussed in the third paragraph in the "Enter EMC" section of this Macworld article (which is accessible from the second page of the Latest News forum).  That paragraph states "While many Retrospect engineers wanted to focus their energies on updating the Mac product (to achieve parity with the Windows version), Iomega wanted to focus on Windows, particularly after Apple introduced Time Machine. When Retrospect [Mac] 8 shipped in 2009, it was underdeveloped and customer satisfaction slipped."  Underdeveloped means Retrospect Mac 8 was buggier than an NYC apartment with peanut butter smeared on the walls.  Therefore many of its technology advances and terminology changes seem never to have been incorporated in Retrospect Windows, even though the bugs have since been largely ironed out of Retrospect Mac.  Among those advances was the elimination of Removable Disk Backup Sets.

 

P.S.: I checked with Quantum this afternoon (23 August), and they have not manufactured GoVault "for many years".

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The OP in ProFromGrover's thread, which I have linked to again for your viewing pleasure, asks essentially the same question.  In it he links to a Retrospect Inc. video, created this year 8 days before he started the thread, which briefly says around minute 1:06 to define the RDX as a Disk Backup Set—blithely ignoring what the dialog you (and he) show says.  In the video I recognize the dulcet voice of Mayoff, head of Retrospect Inc. Support.

 

IMHO Retrospect Inc. should "take off and nuke any mention of Removable Disk from orbit", both in the Retrospect Windows app code and UI and in the User's Guide.  However I am neither an employee of Retrospect Inc. nor of the Space Marines.  OTOH there may be a few benighted Retrospect Windows users who are still backing up to "super-floppy" media, and we wouldn't want to upset them.  Iomega REV, one of the other two media types mentioned in the Removable Disk dialog choice, has been discontinued (last paragraph).  Quantum GoVault, the other media type mentioned in the dialog choice, seems to still be available—although there's no Wikipedia entry for it—but only to capacities of 320GB uncompressed.

 

FYI EMC Corp., while its Iomega Division was still the owner of Retrospect, shipped Retrospect Mac 8 in early 2009—as discussed in the third paragraph in the "Enter EMC" section of this Macworld article (which used to be accessible from the Retrospect Inc. website).  That paragraph states "While many Retrospect engineers wanted to focus their energies on updating the Mac product (to achieve parity with the Windows version), Iomega wanted to focus on Windows, particularly after Apple introduced Time Machine. When Retrospect [Mac] 8 shipped in 2009, it was underdeveloped and customer satisfaction slipped."  Underdeveloped means Retrospect Mac 8 was buggier than a NYC apartment with peanut butter smeared on the walls.  Therefore many of its technology advances and terminology changes seem never to have been incorporated in Retrospect Windows, even though the bugs have since been largely ironed out of Retrospect Mac.  Among those advances was the elimination of Removable Disk Backup Sets.

Thank you sir.  I redid all the sets as disk and it ran last night.  Will monitor next week to make sure it recycles!

 

I believe the majority of the errors produced are for open files, for which I see a license is required. One of the open files being their ever important quickbooks company file.  So I will have to speak with them on how they want to proceed.

 

 

Side question, does the user profile have to be signed in/locked and retrospect open in order to run?  I ask because I had another server I had set up some backups in a similar fashion but logged off by habit and it did not run but tried to when i signed back in to check it.

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Thanks for the responses.

 

David,

There are actually multiple options when creating the backup sets, disk, removeable disk, and then file.  When setting the 5 different sets up as Lennart suggested, I did use the removable disk option as the description actually includes RDX.  These options are seen here.

 

zs8xV2v.jpg

 

So should we still define the sets as disk backup sets?

Again we want them to erase before backing up.

 

I will do this now and await yalls response and monitor tonights backup.

 

 

I just took a look at the .PDF of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide.  In the Create New Backup Set dialog, the Removable Disk option has been eliminated.  However a whole bunch of other mentions of Removable Disk backup sets are still in that User's Guide.  The persistence of those mentions are consistent with what's in the Retrospect Mac 13 User's Guide, and indicates Retrospect Inc.'s inability to do substantial updating of User's Guides.

 

Considering that Mayoff released the video referred to above precisely one day before Retrospect Windows 11 was released, it's strange that he had to show an old version of the dialog.  Maybe the Retrospect Inc. engineers wouldn't give him a pre-release version, or maybe he created the video to show users of old versions of Retrospect—such as infinity—that they should define RDX devices as Disk backup sets.

 

The plot thickens: Early this morning (19 August) I looked at .PDFs of the Retrospect Windows User's Guide going back to Retrospect Windows 8—infinity's version.  According to those manuals the Create New Backup Set dialog should not contain a Removable Disk option.  So (discarding the Dickensian possibility that infinity's copy of the Retrospect Windows 8 app is haunted by the Ghost of Options Past—insert appropriate smiley here) it looks as if some people at Retrospect Inc. have long wanted to remove the option, but others—the Retrospect engineers—insisted on keeping the option there.  The non-engineers evidently won out some versions ago for Retrospect Mac (the dropdown equivalent of the Create New Backup Set dialog in Retrospect Mac 12 contains no Removable Disk option, and—on a second viewing—the remaining mentions of Removable Disk in the Retrospect Mac 13 User's Guide appear to be asides an editor missed), but may not have won out for Retrospect Windows even in Retrospect Windows 11.  Would someone with a copy of Retrospect Windows 11 please check the Create New Backup Set dialog in the program itself to see if there is a Removable Disk option, and report back in this thread?

 

P.S.: Added third paragraph "The plot thickens".

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Yes, Removable Disk is still in 11.0.1.106 for Windows.

 

... and note that RDX devices have been moved to Disk from Removable Disk.

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... and note that RDX devices have been moved to Disk from Removable Disk.

 

 

You're right, and in Mayoff's 29 February video as well—though I had to open the link from ProFromGrover's OP in his thread in a separate window and make that full-screen to be able to see the change in the Create New Backup Set dialog options text.

 

However the change in the text still doesn't prevent someone who doesn't read the option texts in Retrospect Windows 11 carefully, who hasn't looked at Mayoff's video, and who thinks an RDX "dock" is a drive that takes removable disks (instead of a quick-connect intermediary device for 2.5-inch external drives in special shock-resistant housings) from getting into the same trouble infinity did using Retrospect Windows 8.  Why didn't the Retrospect Inc. engineers simply delete the Removable Disk option from the dialog?  Are there some Retrospect Windows customers who have upgraded to version 11, but still want to use obsolete devices (all Removable Disk devices—including Iomega REV and Quantum GoVault devices—having been discontinued)?  Did the Retrospect Inc. engineers fight Support in defense of these customers?  Was there blood (insert appropriate smiley here)?

 

P.S.: I checked with Quantum this afternoon (23 August), and they have not manufactured GoVault "for many years".

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>Why didn't the Retrospect Inc. engineers simply delete the Removable Disk option from the dialog?

 

A large number of customers use Removable Disk Backup Sets and have existing removable disk backup sets. This backup set format is not limited to only the media types listed in the dialog box. We have never removed a backup set type from the product (with one small exception). Doing that would result in a backlash from every user who utilizes that feature.

 

In some cases, even USB thumb drives can even be used with the Removable Disk Backup Set.

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>Why didn't the Retrospect Inc. engineers simply delete the Removable Disk option from the dialog?

 

A large number of customers use Removable Disk Backup Sets and have existing removable disk backup sets. This backup set format is not limited to only the media types listed in the dialog box. We have never removed a backup set type from the product (with one small exception). Doing that would result in a backlash from every user who utilizes that feature.

 

In some cases, even USB thumb drives can even be used with the Removable Disk Backup Set.

 

Retrospect Inc. has a continuing problem because users think of RDX devices—under whatever brand name—as "super-floppy" drives AKA "random-access tape" drives, as infinity evidently did (s/he says so in his/her second post).  I simply was curious enough to Google "RD1000" and find that it is the Dell brand name for RDX.  Once I saw that, I remembered ProFromGrover's concluding post in his previous thread, in which he says RDX devices should be defined as Disk drives—not Removable Disk drives.  I also knew, from having seriously considered replacing my DAT tape drive with an RDX "dock" and cartridges when I re-activated my use of Retrospect 14 months ago, that RDX cartridges are not "super-floppy" cartridges but full-fledged modern 2.5-inch disk drives.  

 

However both the devices still mentioned in the text of Removable Disk option in the Retrospect Windows 11 Create New Backup Set dialog, as well as "Zip, REV, SuperDisk, DVD-RAM, and MO" listed on page 48 of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide, are "super-floppy" devices; they are—including  Quantum GoVault—no longer manufactured.  If "a large number of customers use Removable Disk Backup Sets and have existing removable disk backup sets", then I pity them and I pity Retrospect Inc. for having to support them.  But IMHO Retrospect Inc. Support should—in its own interest—make very sure that the probably larger number of customers now using or likely to use RDX devices do not follow in their footsteps.

 

One step Support could take would be to be more emphatic in Mayoff's "RDX Backup Windows" video.  It should IMHO be revised to explicitly say "Whatever you do, don't define define an RDX device as a Removable Disk."  Probably this revision could be done simply by adding a few seconds to the audio, rather than having to re-shoot the video.

 

Another step Support could take would be to add a section to "Chapter 1: What's New" in the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide.  That section should show a picture of the Create New Backup Set dialog as it is now in the latest version of the app, accompanied by a statement that "The texts of the dialog options have been modified to show RDX devices in the Disk option, because it has been found that defining such devices as Removable Disk causes problems."  It probably would be too much to suggest that Support also modify "... removable disk drives (RDX, REV, etc.)." in "Chapter 2: Getting Started" on page 19 of the User's Guide, because IMHO it appears to now be de facto Retrospect Inc.  policy not to make any modifications to User's Guides except in the "What's New" chapter.

 

Moreover I assume the "one small exception" is the elimination of the Removable Disk Backup Set (Media Set in Retrospect Mac parlance) type from Retrospect Mac 8, which happened in early 2009.  Page 30 of the Retrospect Mac 8 User's Guide was modified to say "Disk Media Sets replace the less-flexible Removable Disk sets present in older versions of Retrospect"; that modification continues to later versions of the Retrospect Mac User's Guide.  If two years from now I should choose to replace my USB3 G-Tech G-Drive Slims with 500GB USB thumb drives—which ought to be available and price-competitive by then, I would have to define those as Disk devices  because my "backup server" is a Mac.  If that's going to work for me, I don't see why Retrospect Windows users shouldn't be at least strongly urged to define their USB thumb drives as Disk devices.

 

Please remember that I responded in this thread as a volunteer, and thereby saved Retrospect Inc. the cost of at least a Support call and maybe a lost customer.  If I see any more threads dealing with problems caused by RDX devices being defined to Retrospect Windows as Removable Disk devices, at most I'll simply make a post there consisting entirely of a link to my first post in this thread.

 

P.S.: I checked with Quantum this afternoon (23 August), and they have not manufactured GoVault "for many years".  So anybody using a device mentioned in the text for the Removable Disk option in the Retrospect Windows 11 Create New Backup Set dialog, or on page 19 of the corresponding User's Guide,  is ipso facto using an obsolete device.

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And i do thank you guys for the help and information provided.  I believe we have them running ok for the most part.

 

I do have a question though.  If for some reason the user is logged out on the server, I don't believe retrospect will run the scheduled backup.  I've been leaving the program open and just locking the user account just in case.  Is there a way to make it run in the background?

 

 

Also, how does retrospect act if the user forgets to change out the tapes?  For example, I have another server that runs a backup on MWF overnight using the same hardware and software as above.  I set it up just like advised but only the 3 days.  Last Fridays backup ran but when i checked today it appeared the user was logged out and when opening retrospect, it tried to run mondays schedule.  I also noticed that Mondays tape is still in today so I think the person in charge of it is forgetting.  Is there anyway around this?

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"Is there a way to make it run in the background?"

I don't think so.

 

"Also, how does retrospect act if the user forgets to change out the tapes?"

I waits for the right media to be inserted. If you have set up email notification properly, an email will be sent.

 

"when i checked today it appeared the user was logged out and when opening retrospect, it tried to run mondays schedule."

That means it didn't run on Monday or Wednesday. It runs the schedule that has waited the longest time when it is started.

 

"Is there anyway around this?"

Not really. Set up the email notification properly. I also think there is an advance notice to be displayed when the user exits Retrospect. The is a preference where you can set the number of hours to look ahead. Set it high enough.

 

As an option (a bad one in this case, I think) is to use Proactive backups. It runs to whatever media is available. But if you don't change the media you have no clue about which destination was used when.

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As far as the allowable e-mail notifications are concerned, see the bottom paragraphs of this post by Scillonian.  Bear in mind that infinity is working with Retrospect Windows 8, which is old enough that the capabilities may be different.

 

And for Heaven's sake, infinity, every morning while you are brushing your hair say 10 times "I live in the 21st Century and I work with RDX drives—not tapes" (insert appropriate smiley here).

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Ok so the user profile has to be logged in on the server for retrospect to run?

 

 

 

Also, is there a solution for when the on site personnel forget to change the tapes?  Like making the nightly job run anyways no matter the set (your 'proactive' method mentioned above), or  more desireably canceling that scheduled run of the script if the correct backup set isn't present, and moving to the next scheduled run.

 

 

@david -  I dont brush my hair!  haha but yes I will try to stop thinking 'tapes'

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