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Urgent: Retrospect 8.1/Windows 8 File Comparison Issue! Thousands of Warnings


nicolas_retrospect

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Hi,

I believe I found an issue with Retrospect 8.1 and Windows 8, and I really hope that someone here will have some guidance, as I need Retrospect to be up and running asap. I have been using Retrospect for over 10 years, at work and home, on countless machines, hundreds of times with no issues, ever, ever. Yesterday, I purchased the new Retrospect 8.1 to use on a Windows 8 machine that has been fully tested. I backed-up the C:/ drive to an external USB HDD by a duplication script (all files, verification on); the duplication completed no problem, but when doing the comparison stage, Retrospect gave over 38,000 warnings! I have never seen that. I could not believe my eyes. It says that 38,000 files do not compare. Those are files of any type, in Program Files and Windows. Here is an example:

File "C:\Program Files\Common Files\microsoft shared\ink\TabTip.exe": didn't compare

File "C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MsMpCom.dll": didn't compare

File "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Media Player\wmplayer.exe": didn't compare

All programs were closed except Retrospect and running services and AV.

So, I used a program to generate an MD5 hash on the source machine (Windows 8) and on the backup device (USB HDD): the MD5 are IDENTICAL while Retrospect says it "does not compare" and generates thousands of warnings. Also, the file size and creation and modification date is the same (not the access date of course). So, there is clearly an issue with Retrospect. I rebooted, deleted the backup on the USB HDD, and re-run it, with again thousands of errors. I am running as administrator. Windows, all drivers, software are patched and up-to-date. Event viewer, device manager, SMART are all OK. No issues with the machine, coincidentally running the exact same software and AV as another Vista machine that is running Retrospect no issues. I need help urgently, as I need to make sure that I can run Retrospect successfully with correct file verification before I use the machine. Any help and guidance would be greatly, greatly appreciated. Nicolas

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I disabled InstantScan in Windows services, rebooted, made sure it was still off in Windows services and in Retrospect's preferences, deleted files on the backup drive and re-run the backup: same result, with again thousands of warnings. The MD5 always match. Same creation/modification date, same properties (not hidden/read-only/archive). Yet Retrospect says the file does not match. I found that in a folder with hundreds of files, the same few files generate the warning each time, so this is not random. But it's not dependant on the file type, could be .exe, or .dll, or .bak. or .xml. However, it appears the majority is dll's. I am at loss here.

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This might be a file permissions (which users can perform which actions) issue where the files on the USB drive have different permissions to those on the host. In this case retrospect may see the files as different even though the file content is the same.

 

BTW why are you doing a duplication and not a regular backup?

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This is what I thought too, but I looked at the files and could not see permission differences. Also, in a given folder where there might be for example 200 files, only 10 might not compare and each time the same 10 files. This makes no sense because for example a DLL file compares fine and the next one which is almost same name/provider/size/properties etc does not compare. And like I said the issue happens with MS system picture files (gif, png) as well etc so it's not a "system" file issue like dll or exe only. Also and more importantly I use the exact same script and method to do duplicates on multiple other computers running previous versions of Retrospect and Windows, and it works perfectly every time, I've done it hundreds of time no issues.

 

=> So then last night I did another test (among multiple other ones!): from a given folder on the computer I manually copied 10 files, 5 of which generate a Retropsect warning when backued up, and 5 which do not, and placed them on the user/desktop folder....and they backed-up fine and compared no issues.

So the problem appears to affect random files (at least I can't find any reason or difference between files that will backup and compare fine or not), BUT always those same files AND only if they are in Program Files or Windows folder. This is again NOT an issue with previous versions of Retrospect and Windows.

The Windows 8 machine is at default settings in admin mode. Retrospect should work. I even tried turning of the AV, Windows UAC, no difference.

 

[To reply to Scillonian question: I use Duplicate so that I can access the files easily on another computer that may not have Retrospect. Also I do that on a data drive internally that I popup in a mobile internal SATA bay for backing up; if the data drive fails I just need to place the backedup drive instead and immediately it's up and running, no "restore" needed]

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This is only speculation based on my experience with a Windows 8 Pro 64-bit and Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit dual boot installation. Unless the Windows 7 installation is hidden from Windows Explorer (drive letter removed from partition in Computer Management > Disk Management) the Windows 8 installation will become unstable when performing system management tasks such as application installations.

 

When you making the duplicate of the Windows 8 installation you are more or less making a clone (assuming you are doing a duplicate of everything) to your external USB drive. Windows 8 may be seeing this mirror of itself and getting confused.

 

As a test of this theory is it possible to try the duplicate to a network attached storage device (a NAS or the USB drive attached to another PC as a share)? Preferably connect to the network share using the UNC path as opposed to a mapped network drive.

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I think your explanation is a very possible one, and I've been thinking about that too. But my confusion is that doing the same exact thing for example on Vista with Retrospect 7.6 or on Windows XP created no issues. So it's possible something different in Windows 8 is creating this issue. Now the problem is that if it is the expected behavior, Retrospect should have a warning or be designed to only check the MD5 of system files, not their properties to avoid this issue. Or document/explain that getting 38,000 warnings in this situation is no cause for a heart attack ;o)

Good suggestion, I will try a shared network folder and also I'm going to do some more tests on a spare/test HDD that has an image of the system so I can try to mess with things more freely and run with additional software removed.

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Scillonian, thanks much for your suggestion. I tried a NAS. I tried a sample folder again which has few files but some which generate warnings, some not (folder \Program Files\Common Files\microsoft shared\). 228 files, 90 generated an error but only based on difference of date/time creation/modification. One file that generates a warning "file does not compare" on Windows 8 each time, whether it's backed-up on a USB drive attached or even on the main C drive itself...here DID NOT generate a warning! So it is really a sharing/access issue with Windows 8 or some conflict on the machine.

BUT: again, this same process worked fine before on previous versions. I'm running a default Retrospect basic option: Duplicate>Main OS Drive....with default options (thorough check, which I want)...and it generates thousands or warnings. So I think it's clear what is causing the bug. Not sure what solution there is, but Retrospect should put that in the FAQ or something. Unless others using Windows 8 and Retrospect 8.1 don't see that same issue?

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Are you in a position to install Retrospect 8.1 on a Windows 7 or earlier system to see if the problem persists?

 

 

Although I like the improved performance of Windows 8 for applications such as Lightroom 4 and Photoshop CS6, I have found that there is some weirdness in Windows 8 with folder paths in older applications that use the 'Documents and Settings' folders structure of the Windows XP era which doesn't physically exist in Windows 8.

 

From Vista onwards Windows made a lot of use of these virtual folder structures. I expect the assumption at Microsoft was that only one instance of these structures would exist on any running system so if another instance were to be created (by doing the duplication with Retrospect for example) Windows can get confused and things start to get unpredictable. For this reason if I have to do any surgery on a dead Windows installation I do it from Linux.

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I could install Retrospect 8.1 + Windows 7 on a computer but for other reasons that would take some of my time...and meanwhile, Retrospect Support confirmed to me that they were able to duplicate the issue on Windows 8!! So for sure, it's at least a Windows 8+Retropsect 8.1 issue when doing a duplicate script, but not with earlier versions (at least not on XP/Vista with Retrospect 7.6/7.7). Since I also image the system drive, it's not an issue as long as this issue is only really with system files/folders. As long as the User folder is correctly copied and verified, that's fine. Based on what I saw that seems to be the case. Then files in Program Files (it seems to be Microsoft ones, not folders from like Adobe, Apple, etc) and Windows seem copied correctly, but since Retrospect warns that there is a comparison error when there is none, a file could in theory be corrupted for real and I wouldn't know. But like I said, this should not be an issue if the actual data files are compared correctly.

 

Meanwhile, I think Retrospect should address this issue at least on the FAQ etc. Anyone doing a Duplicate script of a drive with Windows 8 will presumably get thousands of warnings...!

 

Other than that, I'm grateful for Retrospect, I really depend on it. It's powerful and reliable (other than the above) with all the options I need, and does everything I need exactly how I want it, and it saves me time since I can use it exactly the same way I've been using it the past 10+ years ;o) No other software can do what I want as well, really none. That's why I sort of panicked in the first use on Windows 8 generating 38,000 warnings in the log.

 

And yes, I agree with you: Windows 8 (on an SSD) with CS6 is so much faster!

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