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Retrospect losing contact with clients


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Using Retrospect Backup 6.0.178

Running on Mac OS X 10.3.4

 

I have set up a series of backup scripts to backup the desktop Macs in the office. These are a mixture of Indigo iMacs, G5 iMacs, the new Intel iMac and PCs running Windows XP Pro. The Macs are all running either OS X 10.3.9 or 10.4.7.

 

This script has been working fine for a while, but now Retrospect is losing contact with clients, with the mesasge "Client not visible on network Error -1028" This is happening to ALL of the various computers in the office. The only way I can get them to be seen once they have been lost is to forget the client, then connect using the iMacs IP number. This is probably going to cause problems as the computers are all set up to use DHCP.

 

What is causing this? And what is the solution?

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> The only way I can get them to be seen once they have been lost is to forget the

>client, then connect using the iMacs IP number.

 

- How do you know that this is "the only way" you can get them to be seen? What other things have you tried that were unsuccessful?

 

 

>This is probably going to cause problems as the computers are all set up to use DHCP.

 

Well, yes, it will.

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This is probably going to cause problems as the computers are all set up to use DHCP.

 


Not if you are using DHCP leases assigned using static mappings based on MAC address. Most DHCP implementations support this, and it will cause each computer to always receive the same IP address, also makes it easy for meaningfully consistent forward/reverse DNS.

 

But that's not your real underlying problem, and I don't have a clue as to the cause of your problem. We have never seen your issue on our network (hmmm.... perhaps because we use static maps for DHCP?).

 

If you don't connect by IP, are you able to correlate the "Client not visible" error with a change in IP address for that client? Is there a reason that you haven't upgraded to Retrospect 6.1 (free upgrade)?

 

Russ

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  • 3 weeks later...

Got the same problem, with static IP for my mac. Generally this is the Intel which disappear from the network.... but sometimes Random other , or all.

 

I have uninstall all the clients, re install all, (cf troubleshooting with client starting in inactiv mode).. but still got the problem...

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Got the same problem

 


 

The first poster to this thread reported that he used DHCP. You have reported that you use static IP. So whatever it is, it's not the same.

 

- When a client is not seen by Retrospect, what is the status of that client as repoted by the Status field of the Retrospect Client application?

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  • 1 month later...

I had same problem, we are using DHCP in the office, when the IP change, it lost its connection, why is Retrospect not seeing the Mac by it's name? in fact, when I first intalled, the clinet's name shows up, but I was not able to login to it, and then the clinet name disappear, so I have to use IP address after. what is the fix to this problem?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm in a large corporation network, we are not allowed to map on MAC address, is there any other way?

 

my previous question are:

1. why can't Retrospec appleTalke or seeing Mac's computer name?

2. why when I first installed the clients, without any setting, it shows up on the server where you configure the clients, however, when I click on the client, it just dispear and never show up again.

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I'm in a large corporation network, we are not allowed to map on MAC address

 


That's truly odd. Most large corporations insist on static DHCP maps by MAC address in order to accurately log activity, to control IP assignments, to centralize LAN DNS management, and to greatly simplify LAN DNS management. Whatever. Are you sure you understood my suggestion?

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Quote:

my previous question are:

1. why can't Retrospec appleTalke or seeing Mac's computer name?

2. why when I first installed the clients, without any setting, it shows up on the server where you configure the clients, however, when I click on the client, it just dispear and never show up again.

 


 

Although Retrospect does not use AppleTalk for client discovery (or anything else anymore, for that matter) it _can_ see computer names. Sees them on my network.

 

The program is not working as expected on your network. With the limited amount of information you provide, the only guess I'd make is an issue with network topology or configuration.

 

If you're new to the program, I'd suggest getting a small switch and setting up a little test LAN, with Retrospect and one client. You'll see that the client is discovered by name, and stays reliably connected.

 

If connecting to the large corporate network results in different behavior, you'll know that it's the network, not the program, that's the cause.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

 

I am also experiencing client disappearing problem.

 

Setup: Powermac G4 Gigabit, 10.4.8, AIT2 Turbo via SCSI. 40 clients on DHCP. Gigabit switch 3Com.

 

The above setup worked for months, with Asante 10/100 switches.

 

I just finished moving our offices, at the new location we upgraded to a 3Com 10/100/1000 switch.

 

When the backup computer first powerup, Retro will see all the clients, minutes later, nothing. The Backup Server window shows "Source" for all clients. The Log shows -1028 Client not visible.

 

Any Ideas?

 

Thanks, Ed

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I had a similar problem (though using IP) but with only one client, not every day, but probably once most weeks. The server running Retrospect is 10.3.9 while the clients are all 10.4. Updating the Retro client to the latest version appears to have stopped it happening.

 

Simon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've had this problem for a long time myself. I consult with many local small businesses who use Macs. Traditionally, most of these are small graphics professional shops or local magazine publishers, but lately I've seen consulted with firms doing other kinds of document handling, such as management firms over construction and home-owners associations.

 

Specifically, these small businesses all use DHCP to administer IP addresses to their computers. Numbers range from 5 to 40 Macs. DHCP without static mapping is perfectly suitable for their needs, and they are usually well served by small, cheap routers.

 

Back to the problem, the Macintosh differs, I believe, from Windows in that it will call to the DHCP server on every reboot for its address. If the DHCP server is not inclined to remember that Mac, or the user has made some change in the network or the Mac's network settings, they will have a new address. (And believe me, the user will make changes when trying out new things or are trying to troubleshoot something without calling an "expensive" consultant.)

 

When the Macintosh with a Retrospect network client changes its address, the Retrospect server will no longer be able to find it. It will give an error -1028 (client not visible on network). To twist the knife, when I go to the Retrospect server and select the Configure tab, click "Clients" button and get a "Backup Client Database" window, there is my client, listed in blue, not grey, as though it was perfectly in order and ready.

 

Further, when I click the "Network" button, I get the same list, with all clients listed in blue and shown as "responding". I can select one and click the "Configure" button and get a nice "Client Configuration" dialog. (This takes several seconds, which usually leads me to believe that Retrospect Server has connected to the client.) However, when I click the "Configure" TAB within, I'll see a "connecting" dialog with an old IP address which I know to be old and not current. (I checked both the DHCP client list and the network settings on the target Mac.) A few moments later, I'll see a dialog with "Error -1028 (client not visible on network)". So, now I've had Retrospect tell me that its both available and not available.

 

It appears to me that Retrospect 6.1 Server for the Mac is broadcasting to find clients on the local network and shows them as responding, but does NOT try to reconcile the resulting IP addresses with the IP addresses in its client database.

 

The only recourse that currently works is to forget the client, set it up again, then go fix all the scripts that were broken by forgetting it in the first place.

 

In an effort to minimize all this, I set my DHCP lease times to very long periods. One software-based server is set to 12 months. Yet I still have this problem every couple of months. Other hardware-based off-the-shelf DHCP servers will often make little or no effort at all to re-issue an IP address to the same computer, apparently assuming that the computer will track its proper lease time. Further, a local business solutions ISP I've encountered places its own hardware into the business site. This "professional-grade" device will also not make an attempt to re-issue an address to the same computer. (Having tested it while at a customer's site.)

 

Then again, there are other reasons that the IP addresses will change on a DHCP network. The old DHCP box could have died, or been replaced with an upgrade, or just powered down then up.

 

I do have one customer who went as far as to assign all manual addresses to their Macintoshes. They have had no problems with Retrospect server for the Mac since. (They were pulling their hair out before.) But since there are only 6 Mac stations, and 1 person not intimidated by the tech, that was easy for them. (They have that business solution ISP I mentioned.)

 

Basically, all this means that I must monitor backups in my care for one more problem than I should. And I must spend much more time fixing occurrences of the problem than I should. Just because the IP changed, I should not have to rebuild my entire setup. I seem to recall a time when Retrospect would reconcile the IP address changes when I manually connected via the "Backup Clients on Network" dialog. I think its fair to assume that your SOHO customers will be using continually cheaper means of providing easy IP-distribution to their networks and they do not want to be bothered with more complicated maintenance.

 

Retrospect is obviously one step away from solving this problem for me and making my life easier. Its found the client with a broadcast. It received a reply with the new IP address. It just needs to update the address in the database.

 

OK, time for specs. This is a customer's setup. I am fixing this problem (again) for them today.

Retrospect server version 6.1.126

running on Mac G4, mirror-door model, single processor

1.25 GHz G4, 1.25 Meg RAM (both numbers are 1.25, no mistake)

Mac OS X Server version 10.4.7

Client version 6.1.107 (upgrading them today to the 6.1.130 client)

all clients (around 10 of them) are on the same subnet and are found very easily by Retrospect's scanner. All are running at least Mac OS 10.4

100bT connection to all clients

192.168.1.x subnet

Mac OS X Server also functions as file server

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See my suggestion above. We use static map DHCP by MAC address and have never had a problem because it keeps each computer at the same IP. You might suggest that to your customers.

 

I agree with you that it might be nice if the Retrospect client discovery could find clients by their license number, but that's not how it seems to work right now.

 

For us, static map DHCP by MAC address made management of our LAN much easier, with all the benefits of DHCP, plus providing reverse DNS lookups with the name of each computer. Many firewalls and routers provide static map DHCP by MAC address. Mac OS X Server (which you indicate your customer is running) provides static map DHCP by MAC address, too. Why don't you set that up for them? It's pretty trivial to do.

 

Russ

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Quote:

all clients (around 10 of them) are on the same subnet and are found very easily by Retrospect's scanner

 


 

One thing that's missing from your excellent description is confirmation that you originally Add the Client from the "Select a backup client" field of the "Backup Clients on Network" window.

 

Here's the test I just tried:

 

- Configure client with static address 192.168.1.10

- Connect to client with Retrospect and log in (via clent name/broadcast)

- Quit Retrospect

- Change static address on client to 192.168.1.20

- Launch Retrospect

- Configure->Client->MyClient->Configure->ConfigureTab sees client as expected

 

So as designed, Retrospect is not bothered by changing IP addresses (within subnets in which the program is broadcasting). I'm using a pretty cheap router (XyZEL HS-100W). I can't see how it matters where a clinet gets its address, so I'm inclined to believe that I wouldn't see any difference if the test Mac received its initial and subsequent addresses via a DHCP server instead of manually (happy to entertain corrections on that assumption, though).

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I'm inclined to believe that I wouldn't see any difference if the test Mac received its initial and subsequent addresses via a DHCP server instead of manually (happy to entertain corrections on that assumption, though).

 


I agree with you there, Dave. An IP is an IP. Only difference might be whether the gateway, subnet mask, and DNS servers were correctly configured in the manual configuration (we hope that DHCP is set up right), but that's not something that should affect Retrospect. Um, the subnet mask might, if Retrospect's broadcast is to the network broadcast address - network plus complement of the subnet mask - rather than to the general broadcast address of all ones.

 

I stand corrected that Retrospect can't follow clients whose IPs change.

 

Russ

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I'll have to get back to you on whether I can get Retrospect to update IP's with Dave's technique. It would certainly be more convenient than forget-and-reset. It would echo my thought that there was a way to get Retrospect to

 

Dave, are you using the Macintosh version of Retrospect? You never mentioned. I'm using the Mac version in all cases here. (version 6.1 is the current Mac version)

 

Dave, it seems a little unclear to me what you mean by confirming that I "originally Add the Client from" the window I mentioned. I did add them to the Server some time back and they worked. My reason for coming to the forum today was that they did not work any longer. I don't recall precisely, but I thought I tried to access the client by both double-clicking them in client database window and clicking the configure button in the Network choice panel. I was sure that both failed.

 

My first attempt just now shows that your suggested procedure worked. I don't know why it worked now and did not work earlier today. I can think of two differences: the client version has been updated from 6.1.107 to 6.1.130 since my post. And my first test today had considerable time between the first setup and the second. I can't think of why time would play a role unless it has something to do with ARP table entries that have not aged off yet.

 

Russ, I agree that your version of DHCP would make it all easier, but as I said, I don't have that option. The equipment these companies have already bought before bringing me is all they have to work with. This is generally over-the-counter Linksys/Cisco, Belkin, or other broadband router type equipment (under $50).

 

Two more thoughts: 1: if only a specific sequence of clicks would cause the IP-addresses to be properly updated, then that sequence should be formally noted. 2: If this recurring problem can be fixed in a few clicks, why not have it fix itself automatically, so the user never has to click. (And more importantly, backups will not stop while Retrospect waits for the clicks.)

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it seems a little unclear to me what you mean by confirming that I "originally Add the Client from" the window I mentioned.

 


 

- When the client was first added to the Backup Client Database, was it done by selecting the Client name from the "Select a backup client" field of the "Backup Clients on Network" window? (Configure->Clients->Network)

 

This is the only way Retrospect can keep track of clients when addresses change; if you add a client by IP address (Configure->Clients->Network->Add by IP) then address changes will cause failures.

 

Dave

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*Skimmed through the posts*

 

When clients are getting lost, have you checked the Status of the Retrospect Client?

"Test" the client to see if you get a different error when the client connection is lost (Configure > Clients > Network > Test)

Run a port scan (port 497) on that Mac?

 

Most sound like are on a wired network - though I bring this up because there is an issue with Wireless clients: http://kb.dantz.com/article.asp?article=9512&p=2

 

The Retrospect client doesn't just drop the connection just because... there is something else that is preventing connectivity between the backup machine and the client.

 

Keep in mind - when adding clients using Direct IP (or on the macs Add by Address...) you are using TCP traffic to connect to that client. When you add the client simply by double clicking in the Backup Clients on Network window then Retrospect is using UDP traffic to query the clients on the network.

 

I'm sure you've covered all the basics but here is a link that talks a bit on 1028's and a few things to try: http://kb.dantz.com/article.asp?article=6421&p=2

 

 

Good Luck!

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"Keep in mind - when adding clients using Direct IP (or on the macs Add by Address...) you are using TCP traffic to connect to that client. When you add the client simply by double clicking in the Backup Clients on Network window then Retrospect is using UDP traffic to query the clients on the network. "

 

That doesn't work for me, the client name show up in the network window, but when I click test, it will just disappear and never show up again, for me the only way to add a client is using ID address, but we are in a large DHCP network environment.

 

I wonder if there will be a fix soon.

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Hello Sean,

 

Well, when the client goes in that "state" have you tried running a port scanner on that machine? What does the Client status say at that point? Anything in the Windows Event Viewer on the Client(if its a Windows OS) when this happens?

 

and when you say "ID address" I assume you mean IP address right? (just clarifying)

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> for me the only way to add a client is using ID address, but we are in a

> large DHCP network environment.

 

DHCP has nothing to do with this behavior. Something is preventing the UDP broadcast from working as designed.

 

> I wonder if there will be a fix soon.

 

You should probably ask your network administrator(s), as that's where the problem lies.

 

Dave

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