Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
danworks

Big problems with Retrospect 6 on a G5Dual2.7 and Tiger

Recommended Posts

Hi everybody,

 

I've just subscribed to this forum cos I've a big problem with Retrospect 6.

 

Last Friday I've got a new G5 Dual 2.7, and I've started to install all my stuff in it from my old trusty G4 Dual800.

 

After launching Retrospect I've realized that the G5 internal DVD-CD writer wasn't recognized so I've asked Retro to configure it. Inserted a DVD in it, waited more than 30 mins and realized that Retro wasn't responding anymore.

 

Force quit (Retro- not responding in red fonts), and a nice Kernel Panic!

 

I've repeated the above steps with the internal DVD-CD and with another external FW DVD-CD (who I had already configurated with Retrospect 6 on G4-Panther), but all I've got is a series of coloured spinning wheel, Retro not responding, force quit.

 

Is there anybody who's happily running Retro 6 on a G5 Dual2.7 or there's a known issue with this configuration?

 

ciao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm reading that more people are having the same trouble I'm having on configuring internal DVD writer.

I personally didn't get any answer to my query after eight days, so I'm guessing that everybody is on summer holiday or the answer probably is "Sorry, Retrospect isn't compatible, thank you very much", but nobody have the time to say it. In the meantime, how can I restore my backups if no DVD writer isn't recognized nor configured?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your experience matches mine with a new single 2.0 GHz G5 Xserve (headless). Mac OS Server 10.4.2, UJ-845 SuperDrive, Retrospect Workgroup 6.0.212, Retrospect Driver 6.5.101. However, I was able to restart the server remotely from Server Monitor when Retrospect hung for over two hours trying to configure, so I didn't see the Kernel Panic. Nothing was ever written on the DVD-R during the configure - it's still blank. Don't think that Retrospect works to DVD. Russ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same here. Dual G5 2Ghz / Sony SuperDrive.

 

This thread is over a week old: can someone from Dantz please state Dantz' position on this? Especially as other, older, threads are reporting related issues and no response from Dantz on these threads either...

 

I'm under the impression that Retrospect (Desktop) can't see that a backup device is present. If you go to Configure>Devices, it claims there is no backup device, when there plainly is. Under older machines this has happened (to me) if the power for the device is off. So I tried ejecting the tray (the dual G5s have no external power button for the DVD drive, but ejecting the tray ought to power it up--?), then starting R. Same result.

 

However, if you click on Device Status, the drive shows up as a Sony DVD device, so Retrospect *can* see it after all... or at least what the OS thinks is there.

 

Also no luck starting R after mounting the DVD in Finder as a blank DVD (as the note under "no backup device" in Configure>Devices suggests).

 

The above is true for both the 6.3.102 and 6.5.102 driver updates.

 

Anyone--is this behaviour new to OSX 10.4.2 or new to the hardware?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This forum feels like an outpouring zone where release frustrations but never gets any hope!

 

I wasn't obviously expecting a 12 hours answer, but sixteen days went by since this thread started and maybe it could be nice to get an answer, any answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Danilo,

 

What is the Make and model of your drive as listed in the configure->devices->device status window in Retrospect?

 

Thanks

Nate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Nate San,

 

thanks for answering smile.gif

 

On the configure->devices-> there's nothing shown.

Here there's what I see on the configure->devices->device status:

 

ID- ATAPI-A:0:0

Vendor- SONY

Product- DVD RW DW-Q28A

Version- KAS7

Driver- ATAPI

 

The machine is a new G5Dual2.7Ghz.

 

ciao

 

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

Well it looks like the world has a new superdrive...again. (sigh)

 

The good news is you are on the cutting edge of Apple hardware.

The bad news is your drive is so new that it isn't supported yet.

 

Built in Apple drives are notorious for doing badly with the Retrospect auto-configuration wizard. These drives almost always need a custom driver from EMC Dantz in order to work properly. I suspect this is no exception. Your best bet is to look for another backup device for now.

 

Thanks

Nate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Nate,

 

seems like I've got a fantastic superdrive i can't use at all! smile.gif

 

But I've to tell you that some fault has to be related to Retrospect cos I've got another FW superdrive I could easily configure and happily use for a couple of months with my old G4 and Retrospect 6, and now if I try to configure it on my new G5, R6 get stacked and ... "arrivederci"!

 

Probably the R6 bug is deeper that what it looks like, not just a new apple-sony drive fault but also a conflict with G5Dual2.7-Tiger combo just to make our life easier mad.gif

 

ciao

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am having the same problem also - the device status list says vendor= SONY and product=DVD RW DW-Q28A version KAS7.

 

If this is a new device from Apple that requires a new driver, could we possibly find out when that migh be forthcoming? This machine has been out on the market for a while with plenty of hoopla about being about the new ability to write dual layer disks, so nobody should be surprised that there is a new drive in there.

 

!

SR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

EMC Dantz can't release device support information until a device passes certification. There is simply too much that can go wrong along the way. Not all drives are created equal...

 

Thanks

Nate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For "can't" in the reply above, read "won't".

 

My advice to anyone considering using DVD as a backup medium is: don't do it. Even if you happen to stumble on a combination of HW platform, OS release, device driver and DVD device that actually works you have NO guarantee that you will be able to read your backups e.g. if you have to change your hardware. I have a number of backup sets written on my previous iMac that cannot be read on my current system. Support for the superdrive in my current iMac was introduced by Dantz about 9 months after the system came on the market - for CD only, which is of course utterly useless. On my old system, I had to wait about 4 months for support of the built-in drive. In my eyes, that disqualifies DVD as a backup medium.

 

I have switched to external FW harddisks as backup medium, and I have gone back to Toast for archiving purposes. Expensive, yes, and less convenient, sure, but I feel a lot safer this way.

 

Wim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wim,

 

Can you clarify if you mean "don't do it" for all backup software or just Retrospect. I think you mean the latter, right?

 

I'm slowly doing something similar: phasing out Dantz, using external Firewire as my daily backup and some other software to backup to permanent media for my weekly backups. (Using a combination of local 'net mirroring and backups to CDs as parallel approach until I'm happy with the new scheme.)

 

My guess about these issues is that Dantz' software does its work at such a low level that its forced to respond to even the slightest change in the devices or device drivers. Continuing assuming I'm right (!), in my somewhat ignorant opinion this might have been a practical approach in the heyday of tape backups 15+ years ago, but its clearly hopeless for modern CD/DVD drives. Software that leverages the existing system software to access the drives should avoid most of these problems as most of the other backup solutions for the Mac appear to do (although, to be fair, you lose some features like those based on packet writing [?]).

 

Pity really as the Dantz software does work well for the devics they do support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tramper,

 

yes, my remarks referred to Retrospect. I have no recent experience with other backup software for the Mac.

 

And I have nothing against DVD as a medium for archiving (as opposed to backups) - in fact I think DVD is currently your best bet for life span, durability and compatibility with future hardware.

 

And I agree with your remarks about Retrospect. I've been using it for more than 10 years to make backups of about Windows and Mac systems in my home network, and it's solid, easy to use and flexible. But the last few years I've had two major area's of complaint: upgrade pricing and device support. Dantz upgrades are a kind of Red Queen's Race: you have to invest a lot of money to stay exactly where you were before. And the device support has been, shall we say, disappointing?

 

And what annoys me perhaps the most is the flat refusal to produce any kind of roadmap for device support. Any capable software engineer should be able to tell within a few days of receiving the specs of a new device whether supporting that device in Retrospect is feasible or not, and even roughly how long it is going to take. Of course not all drives are created equal. But they're also not completely different species either.

 

I can only say that if my company treated it's customers the way Dantz/EMC does, we would be out of business very quickly.

 

Wim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

I understand your frustration but there are some things to keep in mind here.

 

Quote:

Dantz upgrades are a kind of Red Queen's Race: you have to invest a lot of money to stay exactly where you were before.

 


 

There have been 3 major releases of OSX and 50 odd security/ minor version updates in the past 3 years. _All_ of the major OSX releases broke basic functionality in Retrospect. Without a stable OS platform to build on companies like Dantz are forced to play catch up. As a result the new features we would all like to see are slow in coming and upgrades are simply not as good as we would hope. I can say however that we are committed to doing more on the Mac.

 

Quote:

Any capable software engineer should be able to tell within a few days of receiving the specs of a new device whether supporting that device in Retrospect is feasible or not, and even roughly how long it is going to take.

 


 

I'm sorry but this is simply incorrect.

You never know until all the testing is done, especially for optical devices. There are so few standards, media types, speeds... optical devices in general are a bit of a free for all.

 

We would all like to have more supported devices on a faster support schedule. We continue to try to support the most popular devices as soon as posible. However, _reliable_ backups always take precident. Depending on the device that can take a while.

 

Thanks

Nate @ EMC Dantz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we can understand that Dantz might not want to quote a a date when the drivers will be released, but it would be nice to have some assurance that it is being worked on. So far, I can only surmise that the new DL drive is not supported, because it isn't working for a lot of people - but there's no comment from Dantz either way, and the software doesn't say "Unsupported Drive", it just bombs in various ways.

 

Looking at my old media that can't be read, and sitting on a system that can't be backed up is not a good thing. If an update doesn't come out soon, then I have to invest in some other alternative. It would really be nice to hear something like "the new G5s with model XYZ dual layer drive are not supported, but we are working on it".

 

We all expect that its going to take time - maybe even months - to get new hardware supported. But these drives have already been out for months. One would hope that Dantz is checking hardware specs from Apple as soon (or before) new drives hit the market - not waiting for users to post failures here.

 

Thanks,

SR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I presume I am having the same problem. Got a new G5 iMac running Tiger. Trying to run Retrospect 6.0.212 with CD-RW media (after downloading the update) and backup device is not recognized nor does it "configure". Of note, it only lists the driver as a DVD-R, where it is, in actuality, a superdrive. Is any help on the way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:

Hi

 

I understand your frustration but there are some things to keep in mind here.

 

SNIP

 

We would all like to have more supported devices on a faster support schedule. We continue to try to support the most popular devices as soon as posible. However, _reliable_ backups always take precident. Depending on the device that can take a while.

 

Thanks

Nate @ EMC Dantz

 


 

Nate,

 

lot of nice words, but the truth is that I've got a new machine, Retro doesn't configure neither the internal nor another external that WAS RECOGNIZED under my previous machine (G4-Panther). Therefore I can't read my backup, therefore why in the hell I did "reliable backup" if I can't restore them anymore??

 

Lets put it this way:

I understand what keep in touch with all changes means for a software house, cos among my job I do beta test for several companies, but my machine and my drive is out since several months, 99% of the software out there works fine with it, only Retro doesn't allow me to restore my backups, and it's just unacceptable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Danilo,

 

What is the make and model of the external drive you are using as listed in configure->devices->device status in Retrospect?

 

Thanks

Nate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

Just want to say, that here's another one having exactly the same problem. The newest Driver Update didn't help anything. Instead Retrospect Support suggested me to use the "installation support" by someone coming to my house.

 

As being a developer on my own, I find the Kernel Panic is a very poor certification of the software. Before starting to configure, retrospect already knows that it doesn't know that drive, so it should rather say "sorry this one isn't supported." And maybe something like "You may help us improving that by sending us your drive profile using the button below."

 

And another thing for the Major OS X versions: you're right in saying that Apple changed the core of OS X every time in a huge way. But since OS X Tiger was released this is no longer a valid excuse. Apple previously just had the core all-private and encouraged the developers to use private functions, which are very often subject of changes. The new 10.4 introduces a new (I think congenious) way to handle such tasks and Apple now encourages to use these instead of the private ones. The way of how you can access core functionality won't heavily change over the next major versions, so from now on major version bums shouldn't produce any problems. Just as an explanation to those who didn't know...

 

Thank you in advance

 

max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sympathize with Dantz on this one. Apple may have a new and clean way to interface to low-level functions in the OS core, but Retrospect has to support versions of Mac OS X earlier than 10.4, and is faced with coding (and testing and supporting) a dual code path - for those running OS prior to 10.4, and for those running OS 10.4 and later (until things change again for Intel chips with different byte ordering).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not much seems to be happening on this. New free update of Retrospect aimed at Tiger support - yea! Still can't backup my G5 - Boo!

 

It sure would be nice to have *something* from Dantz about this - I can understand not wanting to set a date, but at least a "we are working on it" would be great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

Im my experience EMC Dantz tries to support all built in Mac drives. Unless there is a serious hardware flaw I suspect this would be no exception. The timing is anyones guess. Unfortunately we will have to just wait and see.

 

Nate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, we had a birthday party for my iMac G5 last months. He (she?) is one year old now, which means he's fast approaching middle age in computer terms. I've fed him 2 Retrospect updates and 9 driver updates and Retrospect still thinks the machine has only a CD drive.

I've given up - I don't think support for my current drive is going to come before I pension off this machine and buy a new one. And then the game starts all over again: Apple won't be able to tell you what they are going to put in the machine until they have checked the stock on the shelves on the production day and Dantz will refuse to tell you if and when they are going to support whatever Apple has decided to put in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote:

Hi Danilo,

 

What is the make and model of the external drive you are using as listed in configure->devices->device status in Retrospect?

 

Thanks

Nate

 


 

Sorry for being so late ...

 

The drive I could configure with my old G4 and now on my G5 Retro doesn't see it as storage device is:

 

ID

Firewire-A

 

Vendor

HL-DT-ST

 

Product

DVDRAM GSA-5163D

 

Version

A102

 

Driver

FireWire

 

Any Idea?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×