Jump to content


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by DavidHertzberg

  1. Random -505 errors on clients is an issue we are investigating. In this case, it could have been a timing issue between when the machine woke up and when the client started and bound itself to the network adapter. Most users will not get that error.


    The Wake on LAN works by Retrospect sending a magic packet to the client machine. The Magic Packet should then wake the machine and allow a backup.



    I'd love for not-Waking-on-LAN to be a peculiarity of my MacBook Pro hardware and/or its OS.  However color me sceptical.


    Mayoff, the key word for me in "The Magic Packet should then wake the machine and allow a backup" is should.  How recently has Retrospect Inc. tested that it does do this?  On what versions of Mac OS X?  With what versions of client hardware?  With scheduled scripts or only with proactive scripts?  Were the clients put to sleep via the Apple Menu, or only from the keyboard?


    Note that Apple itself has gotten sloppy with testing recently, which is why I have never upgraded either of my two modern Macs to OS X 10.11 El Capitan.  And Apple has a lot more money than Retrospect Inc..


    And what of Retrospect Windows, as discussed in my first paragraph of post #5 in this thread?  Is a Retrospect Windows 11 "backup server" still incapable of sending a Magic Packet to an OS X client?


    Finally, for completeness, how about my Digital Audio G4 (mentioned in the last paragraph of post #7, but whose test is linked-to in my fourth paragraph in post #5 ) booted under OS X 10.3?  Obviously it runs the legacy Mac PowerPC 6.3.029 Retrospect Client.  Is that Client incapable of acting on a Magic Packet, because Apple's last PowerPC Mac came out 3 years before Retrospect Mac 8?

  2. The plot thickens slightly.  Just a few minutes ago I put my MacBook Pro to sleep using the special keyboard combination on the laptop keyboard, then booted my Mac Pro "backup server" (Retrospect automatically starts).  The "Sun.Fri. Backup" script got a -505 (backup client reserved) error.  I pressed Shift on the attached USB keyboard to awaken the MBP, logged in, and stopped-started the Retrospect Client—which IME is slightly faster than rebooting the MBP to get rid of a -505.  I then manually started the "Sun.Fri. Backup" script, which ran OK.


    FWIW I have occasionally noticed that, when I put my MacBook Pro to sleep using the special keyboard combination on the laptop keyboard, the MBP later turns out to be awake.


    The MBP is an Early 2011 MacBook Pro.  Software is per the preceding post.

  3. Wake on Lan works for Proactive backup and traditional backup scripts. If it isn't working for you, please contact support directly. It is supported with Macintosh and Windows clients.



    As a result of tests made this afternoon, I have resolved this problem—which has bedeviled the Retrospect community for years—into three different basic cases for scheduled scripts.  In the first case, when a Mac client is put to sleep via the Apple Menu, Wake-On-LAN fails with a -519 error.   In the second case, when a Mac laptop client is put to sleep via a special keyboard combination on the laptop keyboard, Wake-On-LAN works.  In the third case, when a Mac laptop client is put to sleep via the same special keyboard combination on an attached keyboard, the script  goes into a Retry loop until it fails with a -559 connection error.


    The special keyboard combination is Shift-Control-PowerButton or Shift-Control-MediaEject.  To understand how I came to know about and be using this combination, see the fourth and sixth paragraphs of this post in the Ars Technica Other Hardware forum.  To understand the hardware problem behind it, follow the link in the first paragraph in the linked-to post—which is in a thread that so far mostly describes my experiences with ATEN's CS782DP KeyboardVideoMouse switch.  I was putting my MacBook Pro to sleep via the Apple Menu until early May, when I started using the special keyboard combination; that explains this bug report in mid-February.  Note that I had updated the Retrospect Client on my Macbook Pro from 12.0.2 (116) to just before running the test described in the bug report, which may explain why I got -535 errors instead of -519 errors on the February test.


    I am running Retrospect Mac 12.5 on my Mac Pro "backup server", but I reverted to version 12.0.2 (116) of the Retrospect Client on my MBP to try to avoid -530 errors on scheduled backups.  Both my MBP and my Mac Pro are booting OS X 10.10.5.


    Since I don't use proactive scripts, I can't speak definitely as to whether and under what circumstances they work with Wake-on-LAN.  However I can easily imagine a user bringing a laptop to the office already put to sleep with the special combination on its own keyboard, cabling the laptop to the office LAN, and having a proactive script work to successfully back it up.

    From the cases described in the first paragraph above, the client Wake-on-LAN problem sounds like an interaction between the Retrospect Mac Client software and Mac OS X 10.  Note that on the February test of my "Sat. Backup" Recycle Media Set script, with both my MBP and my Digital Audio G4 (which boots OS X 10.3.9) put to sleep via the Apple Menu, both the MBP and the G4 got -535 errors.

  4. Just to clear up, for anyone who reads this thread in the future, the confusion that exasperated ProFromGrover in his original post:


    Retrospect Inc. evidently now agrees with the conclusion that ProFromGrover expresses two posts up from this—that an RDX cartridge should always be defined as a Disk rather than a Removable Disk.  As pointed out by Scillonian in this post in a later thread, Retrospect Windows 11 has changed the option texts in the Create New Backup Set dialog; "note that RDX devices have been moved to Disk from Removable Disk". Retrospect Inc. also created the video linked-to in the OP of this thread one day before Retrospect Windows 11 was released; its evident purpose is to emphasize that same conclusion, particularly for users of previous versions of Retrospect Windows (as ProFromGrover evidently was)—in which the texts for the Create New Backup Set dialog still show RDX under Removable Disk.


    A summary of the discussion elsewhere in the thread I have linked to in the paragraph above revolves around the fact that the Removable Disk device type was created for drives that used "super-floppy" (AKA "random-access tape") media.  AFAICT all such drives have not been manufactured since about 2009, but Mayoff of Retrospect Inc. Support says "A large number of customers use Removable Disk Backup Sets and have existing removable disk backup sets."  So Retrospect Inc. fears "a backlash from every user who utilizes that feature", and therefore will not eliminate the Removable Disk device type from Retrospect Windows—even though they eliminated it in 2009 from Retrospect Mac.


    RDX drives were introduced in 2004, but they are not "super-floppy" devices.  Instead, as Scillonian says in his first post in this thread, "An RDX cartridge is a SATA hard disk in a standardised drop resistant enclosure that works with a standardised dock. If it is an external USB connected dock it would be no different to connecting a normal USB hard disk."  RDX cartridges are no longer any more drop resistant than ordinary 2.5-inch hard drives—all of which are now built with "ramp loading" or the equivalent, but the standardized "dock" makes them pop-in/pop-out like tape cartridges that older users are familiar with, and the cartridges' SATA connection will supposedly mean that they can be read many years from now inserted into a new-version "dock" that will connect to a computer with whatever cabling is by then the standard.  IMHO Retrospect Inc. should never have described RDX as a Removable Disk device type, but they did and are now stuck with the support consequences.


    Whatever you do, don't define a USB thumb drive as a Removable Disk—as Mayoff says can be done.

  5. icnvrs3, I'm going to make an educated guess about you, based on what you've written.  I think you've stumbled into an existing installation of Retrospect Mac (you haven't really said what version—does "Retrospect for Mac OS !0" mean Retrospect Mac 10 or Retrospect for Mac under OS X 10?), having prior experience only with Time Machine.  You assume that, like Time Machine (which I've never used because of unsuitability for my needs), you can muddle along simply by using the User Interface in the Retrospect Console app.  Well you're wrong in your assumption; Retrospect Mac was first introduced in 1985, when Steve Jobs was just about to be fired by Apple because the Mac was initially a sales flop, and has grown over the years to be vastly more sophisticated than Time Machine.  You're going to have to spend an hour or so reading portions of the appropriate Retrospect Mac User's Guide, as linked to in my previous post.


    This post in the Ars Technica Mac forum will tell you what I had to  do to get Retrospect Mac 12.0 doing what I wanted it to do for my installation, after having not used it for 5 years.  It says it took me 10.5 hours, but—if you follow my link in the "Sources" paragraph of that post and read the whole linked-to post—you can cut that to 5.5 hours.  You can probably forget about opening port 497; that turns out not to be necessary if you turn off the software firewalls on your LAN computers—leaving the firewalling to be done by your Internet router—and don't have a router within your LAN.


    Once you've done that, post your questions in the "Retrospect 9 or higher for Macintosh" forum, not in this forum.  We won't be able to help you unless you include your log in your post: Find your problematic execution of Retrospect by clicking Activities in the sidebar and scrolling down the List view, click the Log (as opposed to Summary) button above the detail for that execution, choose Select All and then Copy from the Edit menu, and then choose Paste from the Edit menu to copy the contents of the log for that execution into your post—editing out any log information you don't think we should see.


    BTW Time Machine, at least prior to Mac OS X 10.11 (El Capitan), may not consistently backup your machine(s).  I do not, however, know whether running it at the same time Retrospect is scheduled would interfere with or prevent a Retrospect script from running—but I doubt it.

  6. All references in this post are to the Retrospect Mac 13 User's Guide, whose .PDF you can read or download here (if you are using Retrospect Mac 10, rather than running under OS X 10, you can read or download that UG under here):


    First, on page 27, "Storage Deviceshows a list of the storage devices attached to the Retrospect server.  This list does not display hard disks, removable disks [this is a UG infiltration from Retrospect Windows—Retrospect Mac 8 and above has eliminated the Removable Disk type], or NAS volumes (those are shown under Sources); rather, it includes hardware devices such as optical and tape drives and libraries."

     Second, on page 40, "Media Sets are the destinations for files and folders that you back up. A Media Set consists of one or more disks, tapes, optical discs, or a single file. Individual pieces of media (for example, tapes, optical discs, or hard disks) are members of a Media Set."  If you haven't read all of Chapter 3: Fundamentals in the UG, you'd be well advised to do so.  Otherwise you're going to get a post from me that says "RTFM".  An alternative would be to look at all the appropriate Mac-labeled tutorial videos here, but—being an old fuddy-duddy—I find it easier to get information from manuals.
    Third, this recent post from me, in a thread on the "Retrospect 9 or higher for Macintosh" forum, repeats the fact that IME Retrospect Mac can't wake sleeping Macs to run scheduled scripts.  The jury is still out on waking sleeping Macs for proactive scripts, because I don't run those and we haven't heard back from Mayoff—the head of Retrospect Support.  As discussed in that post, the Mac User's Guide contains information on Wake-on-LAN that seems to be at least obsolete (and that's based on the more charitable of my two hypotheses).
    Good luck!

  7. See my bug report here.  My report was for scheduled scripts, but it references an item which is now on page 329 in the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide.  Maybe whoever wrote that manual knew something that never made it into the Retrospect Mac User's Guide—namely an admission that Enable Wake-on-LAN does not in fact work even for proactive backups (which I don't use).


    The "item which is now on page 329 in the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide" was on page 328 (right-hand column) in the Retrospect Windows 7.5 User's Guide.  It seems that Enable Wake-on-LAN was known not to work for Macs at least as early as 2011.  OTOH I happen to have saved a Retro-Talk e-mail announcing the beta of Retrospect Mac 8 in early 2009.  Some of the new features it announces are "Advanced network client support with support for multiple network interfaces and a wake-on-LAN feature [my emphasis] to wake sleeping computers for backup, reducing overall energy expenditure".


    Here's one hypothesis: Wake-on-LAN never worked for Macs, in the Retrospect Mac 8 client or thereafter, but Retrospect Inc. left the option in the app and in the Mac User's Guide in hopes that they could fix it in a subsequent release.  I have recapped the history of Retrospect Mac 8 in the first 4 sentences of the third paragraph in this post; I will not repeat that history here to avoid causing pain to certain readers.


    Here's another hypothesis: Wake-on-LAN did work for Macs in the Retrospect Mac 8 client, but it stopped working by 2011 because of Apple changes to Mac OS X.  At that point Retrospect Inc. didn't have the heart to remove the option either from the app or from the Mac User's Guide.


    Either way it didn't work for me in a test on a scheduled script in February 2016.


    The -559 error is not related to Wake on LAN in any way. If the client was sleeping, you would see a 530 error or other error.


    The -559 error is a client connection issue that we can help you with by contacting support directly.



    You're right for scheduled scripts, Mayoff; my test in February 2016 produced -535 errors for my two sleeping clients.


    However, since I don't do proactive backup, I don't know what would happen if one connected a sleeping client to a LAN.  Maybe it would get a -559 error from a proactive script even if the connection were totally OK.


    So, Mayoff, it's time for you to come clean.  Does Wake-on-LAN work to backup a sleeping Mac client for Mac proactive scripts?  Feel free to run a test.

  8. See my bug report here.  My report was for scheduled scripts, but it references an item which is now on page 329 in the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide.  Maybe whoever wrote that manual knew something that never made it into the Retrospect Mac User's Guide—namely an admission that Enable Wake-on-LAN does not in fact work even for proactive backups (which I don't use).

  9. That's interesting.  Back before my -530 problem with my "Sun.-Fri. Backup" No Media Action script miraculously cured itself on 12 June, I had found that I didn't get a -530 error if I booted my Mac Pro "backup server" at least 15 minutes before the 3 a.m. time scheduled for the script—and then booted my MacBook Pro client before 3 a.m..  See especially the P.P.P.P.S. in this post, but also see mentions in previous and subsequent posts in the same thread.

  10. If neither of the two suggestions in the preceding post work, here's a specifically box.com approach—first three paragraphs courtesy of the University of Maryland Baltimore County—that it looks like you can adapt:  


    Go to this wiki.umbc.edu page in your web browser.


    First, use a different page or tab on your web browser to execute the steps immediately under Tell Me on the wiki.umbc.edu web page to create an external password.  In place of entering "box.umbc.edu" in step 1, follow the logon procedure you use for your box.com account.  Before executing step 2, create a special folder name at the top level of your box.com account specifically for Retrospect backups, e.g. "RetroCloud" (no quotes).  Then follow the procedure in steps 2 through 4.


    Next, use Windows Explorer to follow the procedures in the Windows section of the wiki.umbc.edu page.  In step 6, for the "Internet or network address:" field, type in e.g. https://dav.box.com/dav/RetroCloud.  In step 7, in place of the full UMBC email address type in whatever email address you use in your dropbox.com logon, check the box that says “Remember my credentials”, and click OK.  In step 8, type in e.g. "RetroCloud" (no quotes) as the name for the location.  You should end up a with a new location under Computer or ThisPC with the name you just assigned, e.g. "RetroCloud" (no quotes).  This location supposedly should act like a shared Volume.


    Finally—here's my adaption, in Retrospect Windows try using e.g. "RetroCloud" (no quotes) as a device under Computer or ThisPC to create one or more Backup Sets per page 400 of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide.  If this works, you should be able to create scripts using those Backup Sets.


    I have no idea if this will work, and do not have a box.com account or a Windows machine, so please report back with a new post in this thread.

  11. Note that I've switched the sequence of this and the following posts, and switched the sequence of the two methods within this post. First try one of these two methods as found in the Retrospect Forums search:


    1) This is what comes closest to an official best practice: The "Support for cloud storage" New Feature note for Retrospect Windows 8, on page 638 at the back of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide, says "Retrospect 8 supports backing up to Internet-connected (cloud) storage using the WebDAV protocol. Before a WebDAV volume can be used in a disk Backup set or as a source for backups, it must first be set up by going to Configure > Volumes, as described in the Retrospect User’s Guide (see “To add a network volume to the volumes database ....  ). Use http or https when entering the UNC path.".  The place the note says to see to is now My Network Places on page 446 of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide.  The location thus created supposedly should act like a shared Volume; you may want to restrict the location to a special top-level folder within your box.com account created as per the first substantial paragraph in the next post.


    2) This was posted on the Retrospect Forums before the Retrospect Windows 8 User's Guide was posted.  Nobody complained that it didn't work: It's this post; note that it is for Retrospect Windows 8.  This supposedly directly creates a Backup Set; you may want to restrict the WebDAV location to a special top-level folder within your box.com account created as per the first substantial paragraph in the next post.


    If you try either of these suggestions,  please let us know whether it works via a new post on this thread.

  12. As far as the allowable e-mail notifications are concerned, see the bottom paragraphs of this post by Scillonian.  Bear in mind that infinity is working with Retrospect Windows 8, which is old enough that the capabilities may be different.


    And for Heaven's sake, infinity, every morning while you are brushing your hair say 10 times "I live in the 21st Century and I work with RDX drives—not tapes" :rolleyes:.

  13. >Why didn't the Retrospect Inc. engineers simply delete the Removable Disk option from the dialog?


    A large number of customers use Removable Disk Backup Sets and have existing removable disk backup sets. This backup set format is not limited to only the media types listed in the dialog box. We have never removed a backup set type from the product (with one small exception). Doing that would result in a backlash from every user who utilizes that feature.


    In some cases, even USB thumb drives can even be used with the Removable Disk Backup Set.


    Retrospect Inc. has a continuing problem because users think of RDX devices—under whatever brand name—as "super-floppy" drives AKA "random-access tape" drives, as infinity evidently did (s/he says so in his/her second post).  I simply was curious enough to Google "RD1000" and find that it is the Dell brand name for RDX.  Once I saw that, I remembered ProFromGrover's concluding post in his previous thread, in which he says RDX devices should be defined as Disk drives—not Removable Disk drives.  I also knew, from having seriously considered replacing my DAT tape drive with an RDX "dock" and cartridges when I re-activated my use of Retrospect 14 months ago, that RDX cartridges are not "super-floppy" cartridges but full-fledged modern 2.5-inch disk drives.  


    However both the devices still mentioned in the text of Removable Disk option in the Retrospect Windows 11 Create New Backup Set dialog, as well as "Zip, REV, SuperDisk, DVD-RAM, and MO" listed on page 48 of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide, are "super-floppy" devices; they are—including  Quantum GoVault—no longer manufactured.  If "a large number of customers use Removable Disk Backup Sets and have existing removable disk backup sets", then I pity them and I pity Retrospect Inc. for having to support them.  But IMHO Retrospect Inc. Support should—in its own interest—make very sure that the probably larger number of customers now using or likely to use RDX devices do not follow in their footsteps.


    One step Support could take would be to be more emphatic in Mayoff's "RDX Backup Windows" video.  It should IMHO be revised to explicitly say "Whatever you do, don't define define an RDX device as a Removable Disk."  Probably this revision could be done simply by adding a few seconds to the audio, rather than having to re-shoot the video.


    Another step Support could take would be to add a section to "Chapter 1: What's New" in the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide.  That section should show a picture of the Create New Backup Set dialog as it is now in the latest version of the app, accompanied by a statement that "The texts of the dialog options have been modified to show RDX devices in the Disk option, because it has been found that defining such devices as Removable Disk causes problems."  It probably would be too much to suggest that Support also modify "... removable disk drives (RDX, REV, etc.)." in "Chapter 2: Getting Started" on page 19 of the User's Guide, because IMHO it appears to now be de facto Retrospect Inc.  policy not to make any modifications to User's Guides except in the "What's New" chapter.


    Moreover I assume the "one small exception" is the elimination of the Removable Disk Backup Set (Media Set in Retrospect Mac parlance) type from Retrospect Mac 8, which happened in early 2009.  Page 30 of the Retrospect Mac 8 User's Guide was modified to say "Disk Media Sets replace the less-flexible Removable Disk sets present in older versions of Retrospect"; that modification continues to later versions of the Retrospect Mac User's Guide.  If two years from now I should choose to replace my USB3 G-Tech G-Drive Slims with 500GB USB thumb drives—which ought to be available and price-competitive by then, I would have to define those as Disk devices  because my "backup server" is a Mac.  If that's going to work for me, I don't see why Retrospect Windows users shouldn't be at least strongly urged to define their USB thumb drives as Disk devices.


    Please remember that I responded in this thread as a volunteer, and thereby saved Retrospect Inc. the cost of at least a Support call and maybe a lost customer.  If I see any more threads dealing with problems caused by RDX devices being defined to Retrospect Windows as Removable Disk devices, at most I'll simply make a post there consisting entirely of a link to my first post in this thread.


    P.S.: I checked with Quantum this afternoon (23 August), and they have not manufactured GoVault "for many years".  So anybody using a device mentioned in the text for the Removable Disk option in the Retrospect Windows 11 Create New Backup Set dialog, or on page 19 of the corresponding User's Guide,  is ipso facto using an obsolete device.

  14. On 8/19/2016 at 2:41 PM, Scillonian said:

    ... and note that RDX devices have been moved to Disk from Removable Disk.



    You're right, and in Mayoff's 29 February video as well—though I had to open the link from ProFromGrover's OP in his thread in a separate window and make that full-screen to be able to see the change in the Create New Backup Set dialog options text.


    However the change in the text still doesn't prevent someone who doesn't read the option texts in Retrospect Windows 11 carefully, who hasn't looked at Mayoff's video, and who thinks an RDX "dock" is a drive that takes removable disks (instead of a quick-connect intermediary device for 2.5-inch external drives in special shock-resistant housings) from getting into the same trouble infinity did using Retrospect Windows 8.  Why didn't the Retrospect Inc. engineers simply delete the Removable Disk option from the dialog?  Are there some Retrospect Windows customers who have upgraded to version 11, but still want to use obsolete devices (all Removable Disk devices—including Iomega REV and Quantum GoVault devices—having been discontinued)?  Did the Retrospect Inc. engineers fight Support in defense of these customers?  Was there blood ;)?


    P.S.: I checked with Quantum this afternoon (23 August), and they have not manufactured GoVault "for many years".

  15. On 8/17/2016 at 12:39 PM, infinity said:

    Thanks for the responses.



    There are actually multiple options when creating the backup sets, disk, removeable disk, and then file.  When setting the 5 different sets up as Lennart suggested, I did use the removable disk option as the description actually includes RDX.  These options are seen here.




    So should we still define the sets as disk backup sets?

    Again we want them to erase before backing up.


    I will do this now and await yalls response and monitor tonights backup.



    I just took a look at the .PDF of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide.  In the Create New Backup Set dialog, the Removable Disk option has been eliminated.  However a whole bunch of other mentions of Removable Disk backup sets are still in that User's Guide.  The persistence of those mentions are consistent with what's in the Retrospect Mac 13 User's Guide, and indicates Retrospect Inc.'s inability to do substantial updating of User's Guides.


    Considering that Mayoff released the video referred to above precisely one day before Retrospect Windows 11 was released, it's strange that he had to show an old version of the dialog.  Maybe the Retrospect Inc. engineers wouldn't give him a pre-release version, or maybe he created the video to show users of old versions of Retrospect—such as infinity—that they should define RDX devices as Disk backup sets.


    The plot thickens: Early this morning (19 August) I looked at .PDFs of the Retrospect Windows User's Guide going back to Retrospect Windows 8—infinity's version.  According to those manuals the Create New Backup Set dialog should not contain a Removable Disk option.  So (discarding the Dickensian possibility that infinity's copy of the Retrospect Windows 8 app is haunted by the Ghost of Options Past ;)) it looks as if some people at Retrospect Inc. have long wanted to remove the option, but others—the Retrospect engineers—insisted on keeping the option there.  The non-engineers evidently won out some versions ago for Retrospect Mac (the dropdown equivalent of the Create New Backup Set dialog in Retrospect Mac 12 contains no Removable Disk option, and—on a second viewing—the remaining mentions of Removable Disk in the Retrospect Mac 13 User's Guide appear to be asides an editor missed), but may not have won out for Retrospect Windows even in Retrospect Windows 11.  Would someone with a copy of Retrospect Windows 11 please check the Create New Backup Set dialog in the program itself to see if there is a Removable Disk option, and report back in this thread?


    P.S.: Added third paragraph "The plot thickens".

  16. Thanks for the responses.



    There are actually multiple options when creating the backup sets, disk, removeable disk, and then file.  When setting the 5 different sets up as Lennart suggested, I did use the removable disk option as the description actually includes RDX.  These options are seen here.




    So should we still define the sets as disk backup sets?

    Again we want them to erase before backing up.


    I will do this now and await yalls response and monitor tonights backup.



    The OP in ProFromGrover's thread, which I have linked to again for your viewing pleasure, asks essentially the same question.  In it he links to a Retrospect Inc. video, created this year 8 days before he started the thread, which briefly says around minute 1:06 to define the RDX as a Disk Backup Set—blithely ignoring what the dialog you (and he) show says.  In the video I recognize the dulcet voice of Mayoff, head of Retrospect Inc. Support.


    IMHO Retrospect Inc. should "take off and nuke any mention of Removable Disk from orbit", both in the Retrospect Windows app code and UI and in the User's Guide.  However I am neither an employee of Retrospect Inc. nor of the Colonial (Space) Marines.  OTOH there may be a few benighted Retrospect Windows users who are still backing up to "super-floppy" media, and we wouldn't want to upset them.  Iomega REV, one of the other two media types mentioned in the Removable Disk dialog choice, has been discontinued (last paragraph).  Quantum GoVault, the other media type mentioned in the dialog choice, is also no longer manufactured—and it never went beyond capacities of 320GB uncompressed.


    FYI EMC Corp., while its Iomega Division was still the owner of Retrospect, shipped Retrospect Mac 8 in early 2009—as discussed in the third paragraph in the "Enter EMC" section of this Macworld article (which is accessible from the second page of the Latest News forum).  That paragraph states "While many Retrospect engineers wanted to focus their energies on updating the Mac product (to achieve parity with the Windows version), Iomega wanted to focus on Windows, particularly after Apple introduced Time Machine. When Retrospect [Mac] 8 shipped in 2009, it was underdeveloped and customer satisfaction slipped."  Underdeveloped means Retrospect Mac 8 was buggier than an NYC apartment with peanut butter smeared on the walls.  Therefore many of its technology advances and terminology changes seem never to have been incorporated in Retrospect Windows, even though the bugs have since been largely ironed out of Retrospect Mac.  Among those advances was the elimination of Removable Disk Backup Sets.


    P.S.: I checked with Quantum this afternoon (23 August), and they have not manufactured GoVault "for many years".

  17. I can't help feeling that your problems basically have to do with your having defined your RD1000 cartridges as  "removable disk" Backup Sets rather than as "disk" backup sets.  RD1000 is just Dell's brand name for its RDX docks and cartridges.  As Scillonian's first post in this thread states, "An RDX cartridge is a SATA hard disk in a standardised drop resistant enclosure that works with a standardised dock. If it is an external USB connected dock it would be no different to connecting a normal USB hard disk."


    ProFromGrover, the original poster in the thread linked to in the previous paragraph, says in his final post three months later "After working with RDX cartridges for a few months, my very firm advice is to ALWAYS define as a disk, not as a removable disk".  That post goes on to talk about his removable-disk problems, which sound similar to yours.


    If you click "Removable Disk Drives" in the TOC of this chapter of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide, it links to a section whose first two sentences are "Removable disk drives use media that can be accessed from the Windows Explorer. This includes Zip, REV, SuperDisk, DVD-RAM, and MO."  These were "super-floppy" media (although Iomega REV disk cartridges contained a motor—but no heads) that are obsolete.  As my first post—the next-to-final one—in the thread linked to in the first paragraph quotes the Retrospect Mac 13 User's Guide, "'Disk Media Sets [backup Sets in Retrospect Windows terminology] replace the less-flexible Removable Disk sets present in older versions of Retrospect.'"  Retrospect Mac 8 was redesigned to clear out a lot of cruft; for reasons that probably involved marketing, the same cruft-clearing—and terminology changing—was not done for Retrospect Windows.


    So redefine your RD1000 cartridges as Disk Backup Sets—not File Backup Sets.  And stop thinking in terms of tapes.

  18. .....  .... My client has one NAS already, they don't need another one.  .... ... the external drive will get switched out as needed without fail and taken offsite.  All I need is the ability for Retrospect to re-run the same job to copy files/folders from their onsite NAS, to the external drive Monday-Friday with the only intervention being staff members change out disks.  ....


    OK, now we've gotten to the real problem, which boils down to the fact that you—Bill Clark—are a consultant to a client (an organization and a person within that organization, not a computer).  It sounds to me as if your client is a financial person,  with that profession's customary ( C ) obsession with calendar months.  If s/he didn't have that obsession, I'm sure you could convince him/her that five weeks of backups is always more than 31 days.  It also sounds to me as if your client person is ( D ) obsessed with the fear that the organization might have to rerun more than one day of financial work, which might happen unless there is a cumulative backup every night onto a USB3 disk distinct from that of the previous workday—with the previous workday's backup taken off-site.  That IMHO explains why s/he does not want to rely on recovery from Recycle plus Normal (incremental) backups to the same USB3 disk, unless the Normal backup to a particular disk is separated from the Recycle backup to that same disk by two weeks of a calendar month.


    If you can talk your client person out of obsession ( C ), then your obvious solution is to setup a five-week-rotation version of my Retrospect three-week-rotation scheme.  If you can also talk your client person out of obsession ( D ), then all you would need is 10 USB3 disks—with one Backup Set for each week allowed to overflow onto a second pre-wiped USB3 disk member if needed.  If you can't also talk your client person out of obsession ( D ) (which I can actually understand; I used to program in-house accounting apps and know about monthly closing periods), then within each of the five weeks you might—but see two paragraphs below this for an alternative—need a distinct Backup Set for each workday of the week—which means you would need a total of 25 USB3 disks (I assume that, with each USB3 disk holding only a single day's Recycle backup, it wouldn't overflow onto a second USB3 disk).  


    In either case, your client person would need to annotate a yearly calendar with week numbers repeatedly cycling from 1 to 5.  Wait, what am I talking about?  He/she wouldn't need to post and distribute that annotated calendar to the staff.  Yesterday morning, which was a Friday, I didn't need to look at the Retrospect Console or a calendar to see which Backup Set I would use for today's Recycle run.  Instead I simply looked at the USB3 drive that was already connected to my "backup server".  Using the advanced American technologies of artist's masking tape and a ballpoint pen, I had a year ago marked that drive as "G-Drive White".  Since Friday was the last day for a Normal backup—which I had just run—to "Backup Set White", I simply disconnected "G-Drive White" from the "backup server" and connected "G-Drive Blue"—because "Red, White, and Blue" is the sequence I learned as a child.  Instead—for a five-week-rotation—you could use the names "Alpha", "Bravo", "Charlie", "Delta", and "Echo" from the NATO Phonetic Alphabet.  If you can also talk your client person out of obsession ( D ), you would simply name your USB3 drives "USB3 Alpha", "USB3 Bravo", "USB3 Charlie", "USB3 Delta", and "USB3 Echo"—each containing a correspondingly-named Backup Set.  If you can't also talk your client person out of obsession ( D ), you would have to name your drives "USB3 Alpha Monday", ..., "USB3 Bravo Monday", ..., "USB3 Charlie Monday", ..., "USB3 Delta Monday", ..., "USB3 Echo Monday", ..., "USB3 Echo Friday".  Thus your client's reliable staff members wouldn't need to look at an annotated calendar or the Retrospect UI on the "backup server" to know which USB3 drive to connect next; they would simply have to look at the name marked on the already-connected drive and remember the sequence of the English alphabet and possibly which day of the week it was today.  Your client person would simply need to have annotated his/her own yearly calendar with week names (initial letters would suffice for NATO names) repeatedly cycling from "Alpha" to "Echo", and then have marked the USB3 drives accordingly.


    Even if you can't also talk your client person out of obsession ( D ), the five-week-rotation scheme allows a USB3-drive-saving alternative to "USB3  Alpha Monday" etc..  That would be to name your drives "USB3 Alpha MWF", "USB3 Alpha TuTh", ..., "USB3 Echo MWF", "USB3 Echo TuTh"—with corresponding Backup Set names.  Using a five-week-rotation on your schedules, you would have each "... MWF" Backup Set do a Recycle backup when run on Monday and Normal backups when run on Wednesday and Friday.  Similarly, using a five-week-rotation on your schedules, you would have each "... TuTh" Backup Set do a Recycle backup when run on Tuesday and a Normal backup when run on Thursday.   That way your client person would be assured that the previous day's backup—taken off-site—would always contain a cumulative backup through the end of the previous workday, but you would only need 20 USB3 drives—with a second pre-wiped drive allowing for overflow on a daily Normal backup—for the five-week-rotation.  If you don't have to worry about one or two Normal backups added to one Recycle backup causing overflow onto a second drive, as you have said above you don't, then you would only need 10 USB3 drives. 


    If you can't talk your client person out of obsession ( C ), then you're going to need to find another backup app that can do the kind of day-of-the-month scheduling—allowing for months varying from 28 to 31 days—that your client person requires.  Based on the scheme you outlined in your OP, you would still need a minimum of 10 USB3 drives—which you say you already have—without allowing for any non-rotating off-site backups—which your financial client person will probably insist on.  That's assuming your client person will, as you indicated in your OP, accept Normal backups during calendar weeks 3 through 5 of a particular month onto drives which hold a Recycle backup from weeks 1 or 2.  If s/he can't accept that, then—as I think you already envision—you'll need a total of 31 USB3 drives.


    Actually, now that I think about it, your client person's obsession ( C ) doesn't seem so crazy from a financial person's point of view.  You might be able to talk Retrospect Inc. into enhancing Retrospect's day-of-the-month scheduling capabilities in a future release of Retrospect, although they are likely to create a special Accountant's Add-on and charge your client person an arm and a leg for it (which might be justified, because Mayoff would have to create a video and make an inadequate attempt to document the capability in the User's Guide).  I say that's likely because, if there were a lot of demand for this capability, Retrospect Inc. would have added it to Retrospect years ago.  


    Good luck.


    P.S.: Inserted new third paragraph, containing my simple technique (which I have used for 21 years) for eliminating the need for distributing an annotated calendar.


    P.P.S: Re-arranged my first paragraph, enhanced the third sentence of my second paragraph to evince more sympathy for client person's obsession ( D ), and added new fifth paragraph suggesting Bill Clark at least ask Retrospect Inc. about a scheduling enhancement to satisfy client person's obsession ( C ).


    P.P.P.S: In a new fourth paragraph, added a USB3-drive-saving alternative that would still allow for client person's obsession ( D ).  Later clarified that the alternative would allow for as few as 10 USB3 drives, assuming a Recycle backup plus a maximum of two Normal backups would fit onto a single USB3 drive.


    P.P.P.P.S.: Clarified first and and second and fifth paragraphs to indicate that  ( D ) is not just a financial person's  "obsession" but a reasonable concern.

  19. So long as you're satisfied with keeping the Backup Set(s) on-site, I think Scillonian's suggestion of using a NAS is very good.


    However thinking about the problem this morning, before Scillonian's last post, I belatedly thought of another reason why Bill Clark wants a 10-backup-set scheme.  It is that (A) each one of the USB3 drives can barely hold the contents of a Recycle backup—plus possibly a single Normal backup later in the month—of his external NAS, and that ( B) he is committed to using USB3 drives.  His last post, in which he says has purchased 11 drives, pretty much proves ( B); if (A) is true, it really would have saved a lot of discussion if he had stated that in his OP.  However it's my fault for not deducing (A) earlier—even though I have no familiarity with NASs.


    Let's assume both (A) and ( B) are true.  Then there is in fact a way Retrospect Windows as it exists today can satisfy the objectives of Bill Clark's 10-backup-set scheme.  It helps to have read page 405 of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide.


    The way is to use the New Backup Set option in the script schedule media actions for Tuesday through Friday schedules, as suggested by Mayoff in this post (watch the embedded video) in another thread.  But Bill Clark would also have to introduce the concepts of odd-week-of-the-year and even-week-of-the-year, which he'd designate to his office staff via posting and distributing copies of a specially-annotated calendar.  That would mean that Monday's Media Set for the Recycle in OddWeek would be named something along the lines of OddWeekSet, Tuesday's Media Set for the Recycle in OddWeek would be automatically created as OddWeekSet [001], and so on through the Friday's OddWeekSet [004].  The same would be true for EvenWeek, Recycling to EvenWeekSet through EvenWeekSet [004].  He would schedule the script somewhat as shown in minute 6:00 and beyond in this video, except that he would have two schedules alternating at two-week intervals—with each schedule only executing Monday through Friday.  Every Monday he'd have to delete the to-be-recreated Backup Sets ...WeekSet [001] through ...WeekSet [004] on the Retrospect Windows equivalent of the "backup server" Console, and erase the corresponding USB3 disks.  At the end of the last full week in a year he'd have to Disable All Schedules, substituting one-shot schedules for each of the remaining dates in the year and also posting and distributing copies of the odd-even-week annotated calendar for the new year.


    I thought earlier tonight that a second way would be to use the New Member option (also described on page 405) in the script schedule media actions for Tuesday through Friday schedules, instead of the New Backup Set option, but otherwise proceed as in the preceding paragraph (except that the next-to-last sentence in that paragraph would change, as described below in the last sentence of this paragraph).  However that would not produce Recycle backups each day, because page 36 of the User's Guide says "Since New Member backups use an existing Backup Set, they only copy new and changed files since the last backup."  Moreover, every Monday Bill Clark would have to delete the to-be-recreated Backup Set ...WeekSet—apparently the only way to delete its members from the catalog—on the Retrospect Windows equivalent of the "backup server" Console,  erase the corresponding USB3 disks, and then re-add the to-be-recreated Backup Set ...WeekSet back as a Backup Set and in the appropriate schedule—which would be more complicated and therefore more error-prone.


    Bill Clark, if you can find a different backup software app that can implement your 10-backup-set scheme better than the way I have outlined two paragraphs above this, IMHO you should use that app—instead of Retrospect Windows with its current capabilities.  Otherwise, I think Scillonian's suggestion is easier than the way I have suggested—even if it means finding some other use for your 11 USB3 drives.


    From Bill Clark's original post this is eleven (11) drives split between two sets of five (5). (Yes, I know 2*5=10 — perhaps 11 is a spare.) Every weekday a disk will be swapped. User has to remember the week of the month and the day of the week.



    Bill Clark's proposal will require at least ten (10) backup sets if not more. Each one is going to need a script with appropriate schedules.


    I see the problems arising when after a backup the disk is not replaced with the next one. When the time arrives for the next backup it cannot run because the media is not present so by default Retrospect will wait until the media is present indefinitely. Because the Desktop and Professional versions of Retrospect only have a single execution unit nothing more can happen until the media problem is solved. At this point user intervention is required to supply the correct media to allow the backup to run or abort the backup and ensure the correct media is available for the next scheduled backup so normal service can resume.


    This is why I like the simplicity of your scheme as a starting point. It is tolerant, within reason, to a late media change and it is easy to identify which is the next media in the rotation.


    Your first paragraph is absolutely correct, Scillonian; I did not comprehend Bill Clark's OP from the correct point of view.  However, this does not invalidate the point I made in the first paragraph of mine that you quote in your first paragraph, about being able to leave multiple Backup Set USB3 drives connected to the "backup server" machine.  10-port USB3 hubs are available for US$40 to $60 (just make sure all 10 ports can connect to a drive, instead of some ports only being usable for charging).  Finding a little rack to place 10 drives on is left as a Google exercise for Bill Clark.


    However, while now re-reading Bill Clark's OP, I have thought about his point of view—why he is trying to implement his 10-Backup-Set scheme.  It seems to me that Bill Clark must be trying to deal with an end-user who keeps updating the same files over and over without changing their names, but who needs to occasionally recover file X as of a particular day in the past month.  Bill Clark, can you please confirm or deny that this is what your 10-Backup-Set scheme is trying to deal with?


    AFAIK, Retrospect (at least for Mac) allows the end-user to do this very simply from his/her client machine—without his 10-Backup-Set scheme.  Just now on Wednesday 27 July I booted my Mac Pro "backup server", and then clicked the Retrospect icon on my MacBook Pro client's menu bar and selected "Restore Files..." from the resultant drop-down.  This gave me a "Restore Files and Folders" window, which itself has a drop-down just to the right of "Select the file or folder you would like to restore".  That drop-down lists date-drive lines (the drive being the Macintosh HD on my Macbook Pro) for each daily backup since last Saturday 23 July—when I ran a Recycle "Sat. Backup" of all my drives onto Backup Set Red—plus date-drive lines for the last backup to each of my other two Backup Sets.  I selected 15 July from that drop-down, and then selected an innocuous file (a Food Diary from several years ago) from the resultant hierarchical window of files to be restored.  The drop-down from the Retrospect icon on my menu bar said "waiting for restore", so after several minutes I went to my "backup server".  The Retrospect Console there showed a Restore activity that was "waiting for media"—specifically Backup Set White.  I could actually have connected the Backup Set White drive—which is sitting on the little table near my apartment door waiting to be Recycled this coming Saturday—to the "backup server", but instead I just canceled the Restore activity on the "backup server" (which I could have also done from the client).


    Assuming equivalent facilities are available on Retrospect Windows, Bill Clark's end-user could have done exactly the same thing to restore file X as of a particular date—at least for a date during the past week.  I suspect that, if Bill Clark had used Backup Set Red for daily Normal backups for the past several weeks instead of just the current week, his end-user could have restored file X as of any date during those several weeks.  I'm not going to test that, but Bill Clark can.  If I'm correct, then Bill Clark's 10-Backup-Set scheme is unnecessarily complex, provided he can give his end-user some simple training.


    As for your second paragraph, Scillonian, I still don't think Bill Clark's 10-Backup-Set scheme would need 10 separate scripts.  On Retrospect Mac, each separate schedule for a single script can designate its own particular "Destination" Backup Set and its own particular "Media Action" (e.g. Normal or Recycle).  All the single script has to do is specify all the drives to be backed up and all the permissible Backup Sets.  So a single script with 31 schedules would be sufficient for Bill Clark's 10-Backup-Set scheme.


    As for your third paragraph, Scillonian, let's assume Bill Clark had connected the proper drive for his/her 1 October scheduled backup.  On 1 October would Retrospect Windows first try to run the scheduled backup for 31 September, even though there is no such day in September?


    P.S.: Expanded first paragraph to point out the applicability and availability of 10-port USB3 hubs.  Shifted last sentence of second paragraph to beginning of third paragraph and enhanced that sentence, then added request at end of second paragraph for Bill Clark to confirm my guess in first sentence of second paragraph.


    P.P.S.: Revised first sentences of first and second paragraphs to emphasize that I hadn't originally considered Bill Clark's scheme from his point of view—not that I hadn't read his OP (which I had).

  21. ....


    For this to have any chance to work the user in charge of changing the drive must ensure the drive is properly logically disconnected in Windows before physically disconnecting it. Failure to do so can result in the next drive to be connected becoming irrevocably corrupted because the previous drive was not properly disconnected.


    If you want something simple and reliable with minimal user intervention then the scheme suggested by David Hertzberg is a good starting point.



    Another potential pitfall of having so many schedules for one script is when one scheduled event does not complete Retrospect will wait until that scheduled event can be completed before moving onto the next event. At that point user intervention is required to get the schedule back on track.




    I'm not aware of any way for Retrospect [in Professional or Desktop] to send an e-mail to prompt the user for the media required for the next scheduled event. The nearest you could get would be to habituate on change the media to the next required on receipt of the backup successfully completed e-mail.



    First of all, I'm not sure I understand why either of the Backup drives has to be disconnected, unless Bill Clark's end-user is going to take the drive containing yesterday's Backup Set off-site.  If s/he isn't going to do that, then Bill Clark can simply leave both Backup drives connected to his "backup server"; Retrospect (at least the Mac version) will just write to today's Backup drive, and ignore yesterday's drive.  If Bill Clark only has one available USB port on his "backup server", he should buy a hub.  If OTOH s/he is going to take yesterday's Backup drive off-site, Bill Clark simply has to train his end-user to bring back yesterday's drive tomorrow, reconnect it, and put today's drive in his/her pocket to go off-site.


    I should add that, unless Bill Clark's end-user lives in the states of New South Wales or Victoria in Australia—where there's a constant danger of the whole workplace burning down, I think it would be sufficient to simply have the "backup server" computer on the same LAN but in a room distant from the one the end-user's computer is in—thus protecting the data from room flooding as I do. Moving a Backup drive off-site once a week IMHO is adequate protection against the remote danger of the whole workplace burning down.


    Secondly, Scillonian,  are you saying that when Bill Clark's end-user—using the 31-schedule approach for his script—comes to the beginning of October, the October 1st schedule will not run without intervention because the September 31st schedule did not run?  If so, IMHO Retrospect Inc. should treat that as a bug and fix it.


    Finally, as Scillonian says, end-user habituation (not superstition per Stevie Wonder) is the way.

  22. For the scheme I use, see the second paragraph of this post.  For the reasoning behind the scheme, which IMHO is rather similar to what you want to do, see the third paragraph.


    In case it's not obvious how I schedule my scheme:  I have two scheduled scripts;  "Sat. Backup" does a Recycle backup (I'll use the Retrospect Windows terminology here) every Saturday, and "Sun.-Fri. Backup" does a Normal backup every Sunday through Friday.  Each of these scripts has three schedules; each schedule repeats at three-week intervals and specifies a different one of my three Backup Sets.


    For example early yesterday morning 22 July, which was a Friday, the last daily run of "Sun.-Fri. Backup" ran using Backup Set Blue.  After checking the log to see if there were any unexpected  compare errors, I detached G-DRIVE Blue from the USB3 cable on my Retrospect "backup server" machine and put it on a little table inside the door to my apartment.  From that same table I then I picked up G-DRIVE Red, and attached it to the USB3 cable on my Retrospect "backup server" machine.  Later yesterday I walked over to my bank branch with G-DRIVE Blue in my pocket, handed my safe deposit box key to a bank employee so she could open my safe deposit box, put G-DRIVE Blue into the box and pulled out G-DRIVE White from it, and walked back to my apartment with G-DRIVE White in my pocket.  Now G-DRIVE White is sitting on the little table inside the door to my apartment, ready for me to swap it for G-DRIVE Red on the "backup server" this coming Friday morning, and also ready for me to temporarily attach to the "backup server" in case I want to restore an obsolete file that was backed up Saturday through Friday two weeks ago (if I wanted an obsolete file created last week, I'd have to retrieve G-DRIVE Blue from my safe deposit box).  Meanwhile, as I write this, "Sat. Backup" is doing a Recycle backup of the fourth of my six drives—from another "client" machine.


    I chose the Backup Set names Red and White and Blue because I was raised as a patriotic American, singing "Three Cheers for the Red, White, and Blue".  If you've got another set of names whose sequence you can remember, use those names—such as successive names from the NATO Phonetic Alphabet—instead for your Backup Sets.  I suggest you adopt my scheme, but have five weekly Backup Sets instead of three so you will always have more than a month of backups.  


    If you instead try to implement some version of the scheme you proposed in your OP, then "Using the Repeating Interval Scheduler" on page 245 of the Retrospect Windows 11 User's Guide is your only friend—but you can at least be aided by what I have described in my second paragraph above about Recycle and Normal backups.  After a quick intentionally-aborted Console experiment with adding a schedule to a script that doesn't have one, it looks to me as if you would have to have 31 schedules for your single script—one for each possible day of the calendar month. 


    I've still "got all my marbles", so I don't need to remind myself which day of the week it is.  However I'm sure Retrospect Windows has the ability to send your end-user an e-mail if a scheduled backup fails to run because the correct drive was not attached to the "backup server".  I suspect it may also have the ability to send a reminder-to-switch-the-Backup-drive e-mail to your end-user ahead of time.  However I'll leave it to Retrospect Forums posters familiar with Retrospect's e-mailing capabilities to advise you on that.


    Good luck!


    P.S.: Split fourth paragraph into two paragraphs, with new fifth paragraph suggesting inelegant way Bill Clark could do what he said in his OP he wants. 

  23. hgv, please make sure you followed all the seven steps in the third paragraph of the first post in the second thread I linked to (note that I have just noticed that I had two step (3)s, so I have renumbered them).  AFAIK it's very important to:  (1) Remove the client from Sources on the Retrospect Console, before (3) uninstalling the Retrospect Client on the client machine. (4) Make sure the file "root-drive-name/Library/Preferences/retroclient.state" (no quotes around file name, root-drive-name is usually "Macintosh HD" with no quotes) is no longer there; if it is still there, delete it. (6) Add the client to Sources on the Retrospect Console, and then alter that client's Source Options as required.  (7) Re-checkmark the client as a Source in all Scripts where it should be used.


    I don't think it matters whether you get the Client Uninstaller and Installer via (2) exporting from the "backup server" or via downloading from the website, so long as you get the correct versions and ensure the (4) file deletion has been done before you do the (5) Client re-Install.


    If that doesn't solve your -530 problem, then check for the possibility of automated updating of the client machine going on at the same time as your backup—per post #15 in the same thread.  I said in the second paragraph of post #15 that I suspected Adblock Plus of updating Firefox, but I now suspect it was instead  automated updating of the news sites etc. that used to appear as dropdowns right under the title bar on Firefox pages.  If you happen to be scheduling your backup script to run at 3 a.m., note that many great minds—plus the Soviet Secret Police—have in the past decided that 3 a.m. is a time when nobody is awake—which would make it an ideal time to run automated updating.