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  2. Nigel Smith

    granular restore options

    Can't say I'd noticed that -- but then, I can't remember the last time I used the "overwrite older" option outside of a testing scenario. If you can describe the situation you're finding yourself in I'll see if I can replicate it, and what the results are.
  3. DavidHertzberg

    granular restore options

    (Disclaimer: Anything I may say about the intentions of Retrospect "Inc." in this or any other post is merely the result of "reading the tea leaves", the "tea leaves" being documentation and public announcements supplemented by an occasional morsel from Retrospect Sales. I have never been paid a penny by Retrospect "Inc." or its predecessors, and I pay for my upgrades. Any judgements expressed are—obviously—mine alone. The same is true of Retrospect's history, especially here.) redleader, There used to be an explanation of those granular Restore options on pages 129–130 of the Retrospect Mac 16 User's Guide, following the phrase "Choose one of these:" (that phrase still remains 🙄 )in step 6. However the explanatory indented paragraphs below the phrase were deleted on page 115 of the Retrospect Mac 17 UG by the StorCentric Slasher (who is in reality probably a direct employee of Retrospect "Inc."). The Slasher evidently had to make room in the UG for 30 pages of new Appendixes that were copied from Knowledge Base articles explaining "go big or go home" features—pages that IMHO should have been added to the UG when the features were introduced in 2018—without unduly expanding the size of the UG. However a version of that options explanation—including 'Replace if Backup Set is newer'—still remains on page 117 of the Retrospect Windows 17 User's Guide, which was previously more than doubled in size in 2012 for reasons explained in the 3rd paragraph of this later-deleted section of a Wikipedia article. But that explanation depends on the term "Snapshot", which is explained in the fifth paragraph of this also-later-deleted section of the Wikipedia article. As that paragraph also says, "Snapshot" was—as used from 1990 onward: That elimination of "Snapshot" was done in 2008 by the Tyrannical Terminologist 🤣 (my name for a developer whom an old-timer in Retrospect Sales says played a key role in the re-design of Retrospect Mac 8). That developer was prescient; Apple APFS's "snapshots" mean something different than Retrospect's, and something similar to Microsoft Windows' "snapshots". As a Glossary entry on pages 229–230 of the Retrospect Mac 17 UG says: IIRC I've never used the 'Only overwrite older files' option, so I've no idea whether it works. However nobody's posted a Forums complaint about it not working. Read Mac16 UG pg.99 Use Attribute Modification Date ... . If you find it doesn't work, here's why and how to submit a Support Case for a bug. Regardless, of whether the option works, you may also want to submit a Support Case for a Retrospect Mac documentation deficiency; here's why and how to do that. In doing that, you'll have to deal head-on with the term "Snapshot" having been banned in Retrospect Mac since 2009. The last two paragraphs of this post in another thread discuss my proposal—made in response to my earlier post in that thread about the meaning in the Retrospect Windows UG of the undefined term "active Snapshot"—that Retrospect "Inc." replace the term "Snapshot" with "Manifest". That replacement would have to be in the "backup server" Engine as well as in the GUI for both variants of Retrospect, because the Engine is basically common code for the two variants. If you doubt Engine code is common, look at a running Retrospect Mac Backup script—where you'll see "Updating snapshot" and "Copying snapshot" displayed on the Console as phases of the backup. That's why I suggested "Manifest", which has the same 8-letter-length as "Snapshot".
  4. I've been through the User Manual and there is no explanation of these 3 options. https://www.retrospect.com/uk/documentation/user_guide/mac/quick_start#restore Can someone explain them please?... see screenshot. 'Only overwrite older files' from experience just Restores the whole folder contents from the Backup Tapes again and makes no intelligent decisions on the files/folders already in the restore destination folder.
  5. DavidHertzberg

    Console 16.1 erases client options

    Don Lee, Upgrade immediately to Retrospect Mac 16.6. Don't pass "Go", don't collect $119 🤣 —which I assume you already paid for a Desktop Edition upgrade. Retrospect Console 16.1 has "joined the choir invisible". Why are you using it? 🙄 I've been totally on Retrospect Mac 16.6 since December 2019. A fast eyeball search of the Retrospect Mac cumulative Release Notes doesn't disclose a fix for your 16.1 Console bug. However a number of existing features ended up broken in the 15.0–16.5 "go big or go home" era of Retrospect development; most of them seem to have been fixed by 16.6. As the first long paragraph of this post in another thread mentions, Retrospect "Inc." apparently isn't above obfuscating who discovered a Retrospect bug that backup administrators reported before it was fixed. 😎 So if an engineer discovered the bug noted in your OP and fixed it by 16.6, he wouldn't necessarily have put a mention of it into the Release Notes—because IMHO the engineers are ashamed of 30 years of inadequate alpha-testing.
  6. I upgraded my server to Retro 16.1 recently, and started using Console 16.1 as well. I immediately started having trouble with the options on the clients being cleared. All of the "Allow client to:" options would be cleared every time I "touched" a client with the console. This is not a problem with Retro console 14.6, nor console 16.6 It's pretty annoying on the 16.1 console.
  7. Followup: For other reasons I had to recycle the backup set. After the initial full backup of my system, I decided to recreate the "Find Files" restore as outlined previously and test it. It worked as expected and all files were restored. Greg
  8. Earlier
  9. DavidHertzberg

    Proactive job scheduling

    Jan Löwe, The head of Retrospect Tech Support did indeed reach out today, at what would be 5:24 a.m. California time. The second paragraph of his reply is: That sounds as if your bug was the one fixed in Retrospect Mac and Windows 17.5.1. As to who at Retrospect "inc." changed the bug title to be less informative, I'd better not speculate. I'd also be better off not speculating as to why QA testing supposedly (but see Jordan Shattuck's first e-mailed reply in my post directly above) discovered this bug after the 23 September release 17.5.0. However there is an Engine preference that specifies the maximum number (up to 16) of activity threads that can be running in parallel. So all an engineer had to do as an alpha-test is to set this preference to 3—leaving 2 for source "client" machine-drive combinations along with the thread for the Proactive "controller"—and then submit a script with 3 source "client" machine-drive combinations. Proper alpha-testing, including of the 17.0.0 "AI" speedup, should have caught this bug earlier. Everybody, The first paragraph of his reply is: As stated in the post directly above, I originally contacted Retrospect "inc." about bug #8893 by using the messaging facility newly made available to readers of the cumulative Release Notes—not via this Forum. All subsequent communications were via e-mail. So I guess the head of R. T. S. is annoyed that I mentioned my communications on this Forum. Be warned. Also be warned that my sending a message from the cumulative Release Notes web page resulted in "Jordan Shattuck" creating a separate Support Case containing my original message and the subsequent e-mails. Maybe that's the only way he/she has of communicating them to R. T. S.. OTOH hitting option 7 on the Retrospect phone line and typing in "Shatt" elicited a statement that no one whose last name starts with those letters is listed, so I guess Inside Sales Manager Jordan Shattuck is considered too junior—maybe because he still has hair 🤣—to have a separate phone extension.
  10. Nigel Smith

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    Hell yea -- if it goes wrong at work I may get fired, if it goes wrong at home I'm in in real trouble! The point is that I'd rather it go wrong now, and I know about it, so I can fix it, rather than after a few months of a "self-healing" client trying (and failing) to continue on as normal... Of course, in an ideal world we'd have both! I'm just a bit hot on unintended consequences at the moment since we've just found out that a problem (concurrent-use software licences not being released if a client crashed rather than was quit) that we mitigated (scheduled daily scripted restart of the licensing daemon to free the zombie licences) has come back to bite us (external dept with 2 licences on our server advising their users to launch the software on 2 different machines every day and not quit, so they were running up to 15 concurrent instances rather than 2). While we could have justified a slight over-use if ever audited, such a deliberate breach of the Ts&Cs could have had repercussions -- and indeed it has, since the external dept is now firewalled out to only allow 2 client IPs and their users have to fight for time on those machines rather than use their own.
  11. David's story is interesting. Prior to using Retrospect, I also had a "fling" with Backup Exec. Prior to doing disk-to-disk backup, I went through QIC-tape and then DAT tape backup machines. But LTO tape drives cost more than a so-so used car, and the tapes are darn expensive, so I "embraced the inevitable" and went to disk-to-disk backup. I do use a separate backup drive for each year, for the cost of maybe 2-3 LTO tape cartridges. That Ars Technica poster is a damn fool. Maybe he will be OK, and maybe he won't. At the time we got that Lenovo laptop for my wife, I was extremely pressed for time. For about $60, I got a Laplink utility that essentially migrated all the programs and config settings from the old system to the new one. From experience, that's 2 full day process.
  12. DavidHertzberg

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    Nigel Smith, Permit me to recount a personal story that will shed some light on I bought my first home computer in the Fall of 1988, preparatory to belatedly returning to college for 1.5 years to get a quickie BA in Computer Science. I bought a Mac because that's what my college recommended, and I followed that up with buying a Maynard QIC tape drive in February 1989. The backup software was not Retrospect but Maynstream—the ancestor of BE. My wife and I returned to NYC after I received my BA degree in the Spring of 1991; my wife had been using my original Mac for writing and drawing once I had bought a second Mac for myself in December 1989. In January 1992 I upgraded my Mac to System 7, following the Boston Computer Society Active Window recommendation to do so by wiping my backed-up HDD and installing System 7 from scratch. That worked fine, and my wife asked me to do the same for her Mac in February 1992. Maynstream couldn't read the Maynard backup I had made for her. I ended up shipping the backup tapes to Drive Savers, who managed to recover most of my wife's backed-up data for a charge of around $700 in 1992 U.S. currency. I bought a DAT tape drive in 1995, after a later disaster—whose details I can't remember—that resulted in my wife's permanently losing some of her Mac artwork, and have been running Retrospect with a Compare step every morning ever since—except 2010–2015 when I had no "backup server". (My now-ex-wife has continued to buy Macintoshes, and is using Time Machine for backup.) The applicable point of this story is that one has to be very careful about preserving the data—and applications—stored on a spouse's computer. It's possible that x509's wife has been using applications or Windows add-ons that came as part of the Lenovo "bloatware", which is why he would write "... but too much time has passed now." That's why I'd like to help him get a "self-healing" Retrospect Windows Client. A exact opposite of such carefulness is the attitude of the Ars Technica Other Hardware forum poster to whom I wrote the Private Message from which the story in the above lengthy paragraph is adapted (you didn't think I wrote it especially for this post, did you? 🤣 ). He is personally a Windows and Linux user, and wrote—of his wife and daughter's Macs—"computers that I don't want to support when a free alternative they can use to self-support exists. I'm not planning on throwing money away on a repeated basis buying upgrades to any potential software, I'm not planning on constantly making sure their backups are working, I'm not interested in walking them through periodic upgrades. If I can provide a service that they can use to self-support (the entire beauty of Time Machine) then I'm done. If Time Machine is unreliable, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it." I had cautiously suggested a client-server application (I'm not allowed to name Retrospect on the Ars forums except in one authorized Mac thread) for backing up to the NAS he wanted to buy, but ended up suggesting A**—a "push" backup application that would be enough for all his home computers.
  13. Nigel Smith

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    While I applaud your idea of "self-healing" Retrospect client, David, I can't help but feel it's like slapping a fresh bandage on a suppurating wound every morning -- far better to clean up the infection instead. Otherwise I fear that a relatively minor problem -- "I'm not getting backed up. Hmmm... Better fix that." -- could turn into a major one -- "I've had no alerts -- what do you mean my data hasn't been backed up for a month? My disk just failed!". Restarting a service manually may be a pain, though certainly less painful than a full reboot, but there are often unintended consequences -- and so, IMO, a choice the user should make.
  14. DavidHertzberg

    Proactive job scheduling

    Jan Löwe, Retrospect Windows 17.5.1.102 was released today. Its very-informative 🤣 entire entry in the cumulative Release Notes is: Is #8893 the bug number assigned to the Support Case that you submitted about Proactive job scheduling? P.S.: When I looked again at the cumulative Release Notes, they gave me an option to send a message. The first e-mailed reply, from "Jordan Shattuck", said After I replied to that e-mail, pointing out that I had initially read the Release Notes and describing your prominent position, I got back another e-mail saying I strongly suspect that "Jordan Shattuck" is actually a bot. Just what I needed, StorCentric! 🙄 Real people may reach out Monday.
  15. DavidHertzberg

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    I understand that, but x509 has been suffering with -530 errors on his wife's Lenovo Yoga 730 machine for at least a year—and I'd like to automate the relief process for him as well. I'd like nothing better than for him to do a clean install using a retail copy of Windows, but he says "I probably should have done the same [clean install] with my wife's system when it was new, but too much time has passed now." Restart Service is no doubt overkill (a choice of word not originally intended to be humorous 🤣 ) for all the other administrators having a -530 problem with Windows "clients" that aren't "blessed" with Lenovo "bloatware", but it would be effective. Maybe there could be a single "command line" script that would first determine if the Client was On. If it wasn't, the script would do a Restart Service. Either way, the script would then do a "ping" of the "ipsave address"; if the "ping" didn't work, it would turn the Client off and on again. The problem is that, if the Client were Off, it couldn't run the "command line" script—so the "command line" script would have to be run at the end of the machine boot process. I'd like to avoid having the Retrospect Client Installer put in a machine-boot-process "command line" script for all other administrators; maybe the Installer could determine if the "client" machine is a Lenovo. Alternatively, we—or R.T.S.—would have to give x509 a separate script to install on his wife's machine.
  16. Nigel Smith

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    There are two separate issues in this thread -- this "client running but bound to the wrong IP" (turn it off and on again, etc) vs x509's "client off and can't be started" (restart service).
  17. Oh yea, that is me above. I forgot all about the original login. DOH!
  18. Ok, I know this is 11 years old, but this week, I wanted to move existing backup sets from a drive that is full, to one that has twice as much space. I could not think of how to do that, so I searched it. First hit was this article. BUT, as I was reading it, I was thinking this might help me, and got to the second to last article, and see my name. Hey, wait a minute, I write most of this. Too funny!
  19. DavidHertzberg

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    Great experiment, Nigel Smith! 😀 It sounds as if x509 can make things easier on himself if he just checks the Client on "Lenovo730" before its nightly backup starts (he could already be backing up "client D"), and does a "Close program" followed by a "restart service" for the "Lenovo730" Client if its Status is "Off". Maybe that can later be done in one Windows "command line" script—or optionally two; see the next paragraph. MrPete, mbennett, rfajman, and Nigel Smith, Be aware I don't know anything about Windows "command line" scripting, but it occurred to me that the entire process in this post's lead paragraph could be automated for the case where the Client's Status is still On—which it isn't in x509's case. The approach would be the same as in the last substantive paragraph of this up-thread post, except that the Client would launch a Windows "command line" script to do the work instead of doing the work itself. That would shift the multi-threading upwards to Windows, which would eliminate the engineering difficulty of multi-threading the Client that I mentioned in the second paragraph of this further up-thread post. Either the "command line" script would retrieve the Client's "ipsave address" itself or the Client would pass the "ipsave address" to the script as a parameter; either way the script would simply "ping" the address, and do the "Close program" followed by a "restart service" for the Client if the "ping" was unsuccessful (based on the "if I can't see you, then you probably can't see me" principle we all learned as children playing hide-and-seek.). A optional extra—for x509's situation—"command line" script without the "ping" would be run after "client" machine boot to start the Client. MrPete, because of his evident prowess in Windows shown in this even-further-upthread post, should probably investigate the feasibility of writing such a script. If it's feasible, he should include it as an Additional Note in his Support Case #8512. Given that Retrospect Windows 17.5.0.237 didn't fix the -530 bug, I suspect the Retrospect engineers would now be open to a simpler approach. Maybe I should investigate the feasibility of writing the equivalent of such a script for macOS, although I have no experience with macOS "command line scripting. x509, IMHO you need to further investigate eliminating the "Lenovo bloatware" on your wife's "Lenovo730" machine. I did a search of the Forums, but nobody else has reported the same problem. However you're totally correct about that "bloatware"; through early 2015 it included bundling Superfish software identified as malware, and in August 2018—which post-dates the release of the Yoga 730—Lenovo "was criticized for automatically downloading Lenovo Service Engine software – labeled as unwanted bloatware by many. Worse, when users removed the software Lenovo systems were configured to download and reinstall the program without the PC owner’s consent [my emphasis]". Before investigating that, you need to figure out precisely when the "bloatware" shuts down the Client around the time of "client" boot—so that the optional "ping"-less script can be run afterward as part of the machine boot process rather than by the Client.
  20. Nigel Smith

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    OK so, life in my hands (and knowing a workmate had just arrived at the office, so could press buttons if needed), I connected to the remote VM and logged into Windows. RS Client was running, and I could turn it off and on again. Ctrl-Alt-Del, Task Manager, found "retroclient.exe", "end process". Launched Retrospect Client, which showed Status as "Off", and the "Protected by..." checkbox greyed out. Spinning wheel every time I tried to interact with it. File C:\ProgramData\Retrospect Client\retroclient still present from before. After 5 minutes of "Program not responding", clicked the "Close program" option. Launched Client again, this time "Run as admin", same results. Ended process. Messed around with the retroclient file, still not launching. In Task Manager's "Services" tab, found "Retrospect Client", right-clicked, "Restart service". (Interestingly, that rotated the retroclient[.logn] files and created a new retroclient file.) Launched Client, everything A-OK! So I think that's your alternative to a reboot -- Task Manager->Services and "Restart" the "Retrospect Client". You don't even have to kill the Retrospect processes (Sys Tray, Inst Scan). Would love to hear how you get on next time your wife's machine has this problem...
  21. Replying to several recent posts, I run backups late evening, after we are both finished "working" (if that's the word when people are retired ...) so my wife isn't doing anything funky. In any case, I'm the "IT guy" in this marriage. Not that I could get a real job doing IT admin, but I have sufficient skills to (mostly) keep the home LAN and its systems in good order. However, I believe that the Lenovo bloatware on her system, client "L" may be the problem. I keep deleting it or stopping those services, and like a weed, they keep coming back. On client "D", which is also a Lenovo machine, it started life out with Windows 7 and then got upgraded to Windows 10. But that was a clean install, using a retail copy of Windows, not a Lenovo OEM install. I probably should have done the same with my wife's system when it was new, but too much time has passed now. Agree about needing to figure out the underlying problem. That said, it's frustrating that I simply can't restart the Retrospect client, that I need to do a reboot.
  22. Nigel Smith

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    Not so sure. Windows uninstall may be deleting it for them, and is generally a good cure-all, so they just may not mention it. I say this because there is a C:\ProgramData\Retrospect Client\retroclient file, which appears to get re-created on a reboot (or archived to a different name as part of the client properly exiting, since the last line on historical versions is "Retrospect Client Terminated"), and includes IP and client state data. It may just be the current client log file, or it may be that the client checks for it's presence at launch and doesn't start if it's there. I'm looking at this on a remote VM and killing RS client might cause problems (and/or I might fat-finger and kill the wrong thing!), so I daren't dig further.
  23. Nigel Smith

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    Obviously not. I doubt you've got a "Library" directory either... But you should be able to work out what to do from that one-liner -- with Administrator privileges (sudo) delete (rm -f) the retroclient.state file from the machine's (rather than user's) preferences folder. You know Windows better than me, it won't be too hard to find out where that file is and what it is called. Ways to go after that include: Write a Windows script that looks to see if Retroclient.exe is running -- if not delete the state file and start the client. Make it your wife's problem 🙂 Set the client's "Notify if no backup after" to 1 or 2 days, tell her she should restart (or manually run a batch file that does the above process) whenever the notification appears Rather than "History", set RS to send you a daily backup report -- you're probably in your email client pretty regularly! You might be able to just "Send e-mail for failure and media requests" -- I think "failure" includes client not present for a scheduled script, but you should check. If you are using Proactive, no luck Similarly, Script Hooks will work easily with scheduled scripts, but you'll have to be more creative with Proactive because you'll be looking for an event not happening Regularly run a network scan from your machine -- if your wife's is present but port 497 isn't open, do something (send her an email/SMS, use a hardware board that sets off a klaxon, sigh loudly and give her meaningful look...) Edit to add... I always forget about these, but there are client-side script hooks too. The client only responds to two events -- StartSource and EndSource -- but you could use those to eg send you an email every time a backup happens. You'd then know there was a problem because you didn't get an email after a certain time period. Client-side script hooks would work brilliantly with Proactive backups. With Script Hooks, your imagination's the limit. Emails are one way but you could also POST data to a local or remote web server, to store in a database or simply re-write an HTML file to display the last backup time on a web page. Update a single-pane management interface like Nagios, send yourself a Slack message, etc, etc. Up to you, your preferred methods, and how your current RS setup runs things. ...end edit These are just band-aids -- you should really find out why this is happening. David may be right and it's PEBCAK, or your wife may be having to force a reboot (outside of an active backup) because of other problems, RS Client might be crashing for some reason... Sort out the underlying problem and much of the above becomes unnecessary.
  24. DavidHertzberg

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    x509, I'm now going to get myself into trouble by venturing into the sociological aspects of client-server backup. 😃 Assuming "client" machine "Lenovo730"'s C:\ drive is OK, then—based on what Nigel Smith has said and what you've said above—it sounds as if your wife is occasionally doing something to her machine while Retrospect is backing it up. My guess is that she's either rebooting it or shutting it down or removing it from an Ethernet connection while the backup is running, and that's what's generating the Client lock file. I wouldn't recommend holding your breath while the Retrospect engineers develop a facility for having a robotic arm reach out of the "client" to slap her hand when she tries to do that. 🤣 Therefore let's consider doing what I did for the last 10 years I was married. I wrote Backup scripts—not Proactive scripts—scheduled to run at 3 a.m. or later to back up both our machines, and I booted both "clients" followed by the "backup server" whenever we had breakfast. So both of our "client" machines got backed up once a day; No Media Action (Normal) on weekdays and Recycle (to a newly-swapped-in destination with the swapped-out destination going off-site)—with a script that also backed up the "backup server"—on Saturdays. (IIRC I originally scheduled these backups to be done while we were getting ready for bed, but the noise of a tape drive executing the Recycle script in the bedroom turned out to interfere with our sleep Saturday night to Sunday morning.) We both learned to do Save As for any document changes that wouldn't be backed up until the following morning, and we treated Saturday mornings in accordance with the no-work Jewish Sabbath (despite her being Catholic). Although now alone, I still do this. If my guess is incorrect or my solution is unacceptable, let's return to the question of "constant maintenance". Contrary to what Nigel Smith speculated above, this 2016 Knowledge Base document—though for a different error—implies that there is no Retrospect Windows equivalent for Retrospect Mac's retroclient.state file. This post in a 2014 thread by the head of Retrospect Tech Support—again for a different error—implies the same thing. So it appears there's no alternative to what you reported doing in December 2019—which is Client delete and reinstall. A Client, even multi-threaded (2nd paragraph here), couldn't delete and reinstall itself. You can at least eliminate the monitoring part of the "constant maintenance" by—in addition to supplying your e-mail address—specifying Send e-mail for failure and media requests per page 407 of the Retrospect Windows 16 User's Guide. That would, by showing any problem with "Lenovo730" backups, IMHO eliminate the need for the script hooks that Nigel Smith suggested. P.S.: Nigel Smith made an error below because he didn't pay attention to the second through fourth sentences of my third paragraph; a Windows Client has no equivalent to a retroclient.state file. I've deduced this from a KB article and an R.T.S. post, but you can check that deduction with R.T. S..
  25. Yes, client "L" is a system with name Lenovo730. It's my wife's system and she chose that name. My other laptop client is also a Lenovo T-series, with a name starting with "D." I would like a solution that doesn't require constant maintenance. I'm not quite there yet. x509
  26. Since the client in question is a windows machine I can't run "sudo." However, I have never given any attention to scripts. Right now, I look at the History tab, and if I see error messages, that's an indication of a problem or issue. I like the scripts idea, though.
  27. DavidHertzberg

    Yet another -530 client not found error

    x509, Nigel Smith's suggestion in the next-to-last paragraph directly above is excellent. However if the lock file hypothesis is correct, it sound as if the "client" you now refer to as "L" is never backed up. I will use my immense psychic powers 🤣 to guess that your client "L" is actually the same "Lenovo730" you were talking about in the OP a year ago today (Happy thread Anniversary!). And two months later you solved a problem with what is probably the same "client" computer by doing this. So why not do it again, which should get rid of any lock file that is related to "L"'s Client? But I also notice that the Lenova Yoga 730 came out about 2.5 years ago. With two similar problems in one year, is it possible that your C:\ drive is failing in a way that affects the Client? Nigel Smith or Lennart_T can advise you better than I can on how to test that.
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